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RFalcon
Clan Nova Cat
Star Captain
Joined: 01-May-2002 00:00
Posts: 156
Location: United States
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 Posted: 17-Jun-2002 22:24 Post subject: Conversation on the Clans for Old Dog's Future |
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Okay, if we were to write a future for the Clans, no one Clan could be a super-ruler Clan. Nor should we change the Clans too much. It would defeat the purpose of making the "book". Those who want to play a Clan in Clanspace play them b/c they like playing Clanners.
Raven!: Certain Clans would not be as big as they were before (Clan Wolf, Jade Falcon and Hell's Horses specifically and all the Crusader Clans would lose face in general). As a result SOME Crusader Clans would have more power, but not to the extent you are suggesting.
It is highly likely that Clan Ghost Bear would cut most if not all of it's ties to the Clan Council. That would balance out the loss of power by the Crusaders, making the two sides approximately even.
Somethings would change. Like Clan Goliath Scorpion would have some inner turmoil, because they have always followed the lead of Clan Wolf, who have been Wardens for quite some time. Now their "leaders" have "jumped ship" and the Scorpions are left wondering whether to continue on their current path or to follow the Wolves.
I am sure other Clanners could give potential problems and situations that would arise in this book.
_________________
Nova Commander Tarn (Elam)
3rd BattleMech Star
1st Battle Trinary
8th Scorpion Uhlans (The Crimson Legion)
Gamma Galaxy (The Cave Dwellers)
Clan Golaith Scorpion
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Raven!
Clan Snow Raven
Galaxy Commander
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 1326
Location: United States
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| Posted: 17-Jun-2002 22:28 Post subject: Conversation on the Clans for Old Dog's Future |
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I disagree. No Clan has the resources that Clan Snow Raven can throw into a fight, and no Clan is like the Snow Ravens, they will throw Clan rules out the window if they saw an advantage in it. Remember, they LOVE the game of politics. If you have ever read the Riftwar Series by Raymond E. Fest, the Empire in that series would be a good example of the Snow Ravens.
Raven!
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Old Dog
Capellan Confederation
Sang-wei
Joined: 24-May-2002 00:00
Posts: 299
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| Posted: 17-Jun-2002 22:39 Post subject: Conversation on the Clans for Old Dog's Future |
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Actually, Raven, Falcon's a bit closer, here. Establishing a balance is important.
Wolervine's long gone, leaving 19. Some(d) Jaguar is gone, and Ghost Bear and Nova Cat are now Inner Sphere powers. That leaves 16.
Wolf and Jade Falcon are beaten badly. Wolf, in particular, is virtually dead. These two are out of leadership positions for the foreseable future, but are still strong enough to prevent Absorbtion.
That leaves the other 14 to try and do stuff with. The key is that none need to go wild and dominate. One or two might be stronger than the rest, but, not by a huge margin.
Uhm. Beyond that? Knock yourself out. 
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Raven!
Clan Snow Raven
Galaxy Commander
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 1326
Location: United States
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| Posted: 17-Jun-2002 22:41 Post subject: Conversation on the Clans for Old Dog's Future |
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Maybe, but it does take care of a lot of problems. A LOT of problems.
And notice how I didn't use nukes
Raven!
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RFalcon
Clan Nova Cat
Star Captain
Joined: 01-May-2002 00:00
Posts: 156
Location: United States
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| Posted: 17-Jun-2002 23:02 Post subject: Conversation on the Clans for Old Dog's Future |
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Thank you Old Dog, you said it better than I could have. BTW, it would be down to 11 main Clans. See:
Blood Spirt: Clan Space
Burrock: Absorbed by Clan Star Adder
Cloud Cobra: Clan Space
Coyote: Clan Space
Diamond Shark: Clan Space?
Fire Mandrill: Clan Space
Ghost Bear: IS
Goliath Scorpion: Clan Space
Hell's Horses: Clan Space
Ice Hellion: Clan Space
Jade Falcon: Weakened
Mongoose: Absorbed by Clan Smoke Jaguar
Nova Cat: IS
Smoke Jaguar: Toast
Snow Raven: Clan Space
Star Adder: Clan Space
Steel Viper: Clan Space
Widowmaker: Absorbed by Clan Wolf
Wolf: Weakeded
Wolverine: Toast
As far as balance, I would think one Warden Clan and two Crusader Clans (remember the Crusaders are really hurting right about now) would go to fill the power vacuum created by the massive beatings that Clan Wolf and Jade Falcon took. Hell's Horses wouldn't be in the running for one of the Crusader spots because they got hurt by CGB too. Clan Goliath Scorpion would not be good either, they are at a point of deciding what they will become, so they are in no position to lead either factions.
Raven!: I know you will say Clan Snow Raven for the leaders of the Wardens... I won't say you are wrong. I do not know. I do not have access to FM: Warden Clans yet. I am going to get it soon, but I do not have it at the moment. So I would look to others (like you) for information on that.
And as for it taking care of problems, problems can be good.  Problems are interesting.  If something is interesting it will garner attiontion. Attention is VERY GOOD!
_________________
Nova Commander Tarn (Elam)
3rd BattleMech Star
1st Battle Trinary
8th Scorpion Uhlans (The Crimson Legion)
Gamma Galaxy (The Cave Dwellers)
Clan Golaith Scorpion
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Old Dog
Capellan Confederation
Sang-wei
Joined: 24-May-2002 00:00
Posts: 299
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| Posted: 17-Jun-2002 23:13 Post subject: Conversation on the Clans for Old Dog's Future |
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Oh, you are *so* eatting a pillow for that one, Raven.
*paff paff paff*
-- Old Dog, fox-grinnin'
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Ruger
Lyran Alliance
Hauptmann General
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 2108
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| Posted: 17-Jun-2002 23:35 Post subject: Conversation on the Clans for Old Dog's Future |
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Quote:
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Hell's Horses wouldn't be in the running for one of the Crusader spots because they got hurt by CGB too.
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They are Wardens now anyways...Warden leaders, Warden people, Warden Clan...
Ruger
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RFalcon
Clan Nova Cat
Star Captain
Joined: 01-May-2002 00:00
Posts: 156
Location: United States
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| Posted: 17-Jun-2002 23:45 Post subject: Conversation on the Clans for Old Dog's Future |
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Really? Thanks Ruger. Didn't know that. How'd that happen?
_________________
Nova Commander Tarn (Elam)
3rd BattleMech Star
1st Battle Trinary
8th Scorpion Uhlans (The Crimson Legion)
Gamma Galaxy (The Cave Dwellers)
Clan Golaith Scorpion
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Ruger
Lyran Alliance
Hauptmann General
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 2108
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| Posted: 18-Jun-2002 01:23 Post subject: Conversation on the Clans for Old Dog's Future |
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Quote:
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On 2002-06-17 23:45, RFalcon wrote:
Really? Thanks Ruger. Didn't know that. How'd that happen?
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When they were ejected from the Inner Sphere, Star Colonel James Cobb fought a Trial of Possession against Khan Malavai Fletcher for the rank of Khan of the Hell's Horses because of the disgrace Fletcher had brought to the rank and Clan Hell's Horses...Cobb won, killing Fletcher by impaling him on his cermonial sword (a rapier?)...Cobb is a Warden...the majority of the people in his Clan are Warden (stated in multiple sourcebooks)...the only reason it was Crusader was because Fletcher "installed" Crusader leadership (much as you can in the Clans, anyways), something Cobb most likely rectified after taking up his position as Khan...
Also, I almost want to hazard a further guess on something...
On the Comstar INN website, they have a map of the Republic of the Sphere...in the upper right corner of this map is a small map of the entire Inner Sphere...it shows 4 wedges of Clan corridors...the left-most is the Clan Jade Falcon corridor...the right-most is the Ghost Bears (which also appears to absorb the former Free Rasalhague Republic, so we can be virtually certain that it is, indeed, the Bears)...that leaves 2 wedges, one of which almost must be the Wolves...what is the other?
Well...my guess is this...upon rereading the epilogue of Test of Vengeance, Malavai Fletchers last words are: "Succeed where I have failed, Khan James Cobb...Punish the Wolves for using us...and punish the Ghost Bears for...using...me."
To this, everyone in the room responds: "Seyla."
Could it be that the Hell's Horses took this to heart? At least as far as getting revenge on the Wolves? (IE, I'm guessing they may have taken that smaller wedge from the Wolves that you can see in the upper left of their former invasion corridor, right next to the Jade Falcons...but they MIGHT possibly have taken the other side...not as likely though, since that includes such worlds as the Wolves capital of Tamar)...
Just a theory...
Ruger
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RFalcon
Clan Nova Cat
Star Captain
Joined: 01-May-2002 00:00
Posts: 156
Location: United States
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| Posted: 18-Jun-2002 09:33 Post subject: Conversation on the Clans for Old Dog's Future |
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Okay, cool. Well Ruger, since you seem to have a good amount of Clan Hell's Horses information, how much resources did they have in that little slice of Clan territory in the OZ did they have, and how much would getting booted from the IS by Clan Ghost Bear hurt them, both in actual resources and politically. What about them "changing" allegiances, what will that do to them politically?
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Nova Commander Tarn (Elam)
3rd BattleMech Star
1st Battle Trinary
8th Scorpion Uhlans (The Crimson Legion)
Gamma Galaxy (The Cave Dwellers)
Clan Golaith Scorpion
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Ruger
Lyran Alliance
Hauptmann General
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 2108
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| Posted: 18-Jun-2002 10:23 Post subject: Conversation on the Clans for Old Dog's Future |
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Quote:
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On 2002-06-18 09:33, RFalcon wrote:
Okay, cool. Well Ruger, since you seem to have a good amount of Clan Hell's Horses information, how much resources did they have in that little slice of Clan territory in the OZ did they have, and how much would getting booted from the IS by Clan Ghost Bear hurt them, both in actual resources and politically. What about them "changing" allegiances, what will that do to them politically?
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They only had about a cluster on the three worlds they had taken, IIRC...plus their Alpha Keshik...and they escaped with at least some of their forces...as for the politics, no more than the Ghost Bears or the Diamond Shark switches, and getting booted won't hurt them any more than it did the Steel Vipers, and most likely far less since they had less presence there to begin with...
Ruger
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RFalcon
Clan Nova Cat
Star Captain
Joined: 01-May-2002 00:00
Posts: 156
Location: United States
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| Posted: 18-Jun-2002 10:25 Post subject: Conversation on the Clans for Old Dog's Future |
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Okei, thanks.
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Nova Commander Tarn (Elam)
3rd BattleMech Star
1st Battle Trinary
8th Scorpion Uhlans (The Crimson Legion)
Gamma Galaxy (The Cave Dwellers)
Clan Golaith Scorpion
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