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Dragnorian
Royal Black Watch Regiment
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 Posted: 14-Apr-2024 15:15 Post subject: Void-Signature fully active if you jump in place clarificati |
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Hi, I was wondering if how Void-Signature armour works, I know it says if you move a hex then you get a debuff and if you don't move any hexes then you get the +3DEF however, I was playing against someone last night who had jump jets and he just jumped in place, giving him a +3/+1 modifier of GATOR but since he did not move to any other hexes, just jumped in place, he still gets the additional +3DEF. Is this right? It seems not what was intended due to movement would give some signature in the armour but he did not move any hexes technically, just stayed in his home hex. (I can't add the rules as it is a .png and I am on my phone)
[Last edited by Dragnorian on 15-Apr-2024 17:37; edited 1 time in total]
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Vagabond
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| Posted: 14-Apr-2024 17:28 Post subject: Void-Signature fully active if you jump in place clarificati |
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Welp, this goes on the rules I didn't know. A mech is in fact allowed to pop-up jump 0 hexes into its starting hex for 1 mp. I'll be.
So, for your situation, I can see RAW interpreting this in two directions:
1. As Jump MP is associated directly with # of hexes moved, the intent of a 0 hex jump is that it still counts as moving 1 hex. Therefore, Void would grant +2 with an extra +1 for jumping 0 hexes for a total of +3; however, the Void equipped unit suffers a +3 to-hit penalty for doing so.
2. The intent of Void is # of hexes moved on the board regardless of movement type used, and as such, jumping 0 hexes would result in Void granting a +3 and jump a +1 for a total of +4; but, at the expense of +3 to-hit penalty for jumping.
Sadly, I think #2 is the more literal interpretation even if it makes less sense.
My errata fix if I got to decide would be: Before Infantry section add "On any turn that an equipped Mech expends jump MP to move, any to-hit penalty imposed by the Void system is reduced by an additional 1 point".
A second errata option would be: replace "A ’Mech may jump into the same hex it began the turn in, for 1 MP" with "A ’Mech may jump into the same hex it began the turn in, for 1 MP and is treated as having moved 1 hex for game purposes". Yes, this would negate the optional standing still to-hit penalty.
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Dragnorian
Royal Black Watch Regiment
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| Posted: 14-Apr-2024 17:47 Post subject: Void-Signature fully active if you jump in place clarificati |
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| I like the second errata option better honestly, I think that way it is more like other movements. It is odd that Catalyst didn't see this but it is understandable as the rules were written at much different times. Maybe someone there will see this post and fix it haha
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Dragnorian
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| Posted: 14-Apr-2024 19:39 Post subject: Void-Signature fully active if you jump in place clarificati |
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| Since we are on the subject of the Void-Signature System, the rules for it specifically says that it requires an "ECM Suite", which is its own equipment. Would you rule that using a Nova CEWS would be the same? I have someone saying it is because it has an ECM inside of it but the Nova CEWS acts as an upgraded C3 network.
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chihawk
Clan Blood Spirit
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| Posted: 14-Apr-2024 20:36 Post subject: Re: Void-Signature fully active if you jump in place clarificati |
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| Vagabond wrote: | Welp, this goes on the rules I didn't know. A mech is in fact allowed to pop-up jump 0 hexes into its starting hex for 1 mp. I'll be.
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Yes, and I've done it in a mech with heat/damage reduced to 1/2/5 movement, and I had to turn around. I jumped within my hex to change three facings. 1 MP, +3 to hit, +3 heat...a brilliant tactical plan that, well, didn't work and I died. 
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Vagabond
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| Posted: 14-Apr-2024 20:45 Post subject: Re: Void-Signature fully active if you jump in place clarificati |
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| Dragnorian wrote: | | Since we are on the subject of the Void-Signature System, the rules for it specifically says that it requires an "ECM Suite", which is its own equipment. Would you rule that using a Nova CEWS would be the same? I have someone saying it is because it has an ECM inside of it but the Nova CEWS acts as an upgraded C3 network. |
Nova CEWS is incompatibly with VOID Sig. bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php?PHPSESSID=p7b6nu6bk1atbijf70onnureef&topic=66931.0
My guess is that VOID expressly prohibits special communication and targeting systems that are an essential integrated part of Nova.
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ImperialOne
Clan Wolf
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| Posted: 14-Apr-2024 21:44 Post subject: Void-Signature fully active if you jump in place clarificati |
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I've considered similar arguments (that Nova, having some ECM in it, qualifies as ECM) in the past, but it seems that a separate ECM suite is required (based on literal RAW and various BT forum searches as well as Vagabond's consistency in the matter on these forums). I have looked into the matter, and it is fairly specific based on rules language that Nova CEWS is specifically incompatible with Void Signature System (but Nova WILL work fine concurrently if you have Chameleon Light Polarization Shield and/or Null Signature Systems).
It would appear that Void Signature, like Stealth armor, requires ECM suite. This would also be satisfied by Guardian ECM, Angel ECM Suite, and/or Watchdog CEWS (as Watchdog is specifically ECM + Ligh Active Probe).
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Dragnorian
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| Posted: 15-Apr-2024 17:41 Post subject: Re: Void-Signature fully active if you jump in place clarificati |
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| This is what I thought but their defense was that since in the Mordel mech builder and MegaMek, it counts them as being compatible but RAW says otherwise. Is there a reason why these builders say the Nova CEWS says they are compatible? Do they only go with an "ECM" keyword and not having the "ECM suite"? I am not sure how either goes about compatibility checking.
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Dragnorian
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| Posted: 15-Apr-2024 19:37 Post subject: Re: Void-Signature fully active if you jump in place clarificati |
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| Would you be able to clarify the last bullet point for the Void-Signature System "When the void-signature system is engaged, any ECM on the unit has no effect, other than to make the void-signature system functional". They are arguing that since it says that then any equipment with ECM functionality would work, like the Nova-CEWS but the bullet point above specifies ECM suites.
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Vagabond
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| Posted: 15-Apr-2024 22:37 Post subject: Void-Signature fully active if you jump in place clarificati |
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It works just as it say, while void signature is on and generating a to hit (even +0), any and all types of ECM systems on the unit generate no effects. So you cannot ECM someone's artemies 4 or ECCM someones ECM while your Void Sig is active.
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Dragnorian
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| Posted: 15-Apr-2024 23:27 Post subject: Void-Signature fully active if you jump in place clarificati |
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| Right, I am not arguing that but they are arguing that because the last bullet point is saying "ECMs" then they can use the Nova CEWS to power the Void-Sig System which I am saying they can't since the bullet point 2 spots before says "A critical hit to any of the Void-Sig system's critical slots will destroy the entire system, as will the loss of all ECM suites mounted on the unit". I have been trying to tell them this bullet point but they are very adamant that because of the last bullet point, then a Nova CEWS must be able to power it.
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Vagabond
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| Posted: 15-Apr-2024 23:43 Post subject: Re: Void-Signature fully active if you jump in place clarificati |
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| Dragnorian wrote: | | Right, I am not arguing that but they are arguing that because the last bullet point is saying "ECMs" then they can use the Nova CEWS to power the Void-Sig System which I am saying they can't since the bullet point 2 spots before says "A critical hit to any of the Void-Sig system's critical slots will destroy the entire system, as will the loss of all ECM suites mounted on the unit". I have been trying to tell them this bullet point but they are very adamant that because of the last bullet point, then a Nova CEWS must be able to power it. |
There argument is moot as a unit with Void cannot mount NOVA CEWS at all per catalyst.
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one must work hard to cultivate the mind and body. and one must always cultivate the mind.
//^(^_^)^\\
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Dragnorian
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| Posted: 15-Apr-2024 23:46 Post subject: Re: Void-Signature fully active if you jump in place clarificati |
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| Do you have the link to where I can read where Catalyst wrote it? I am new into getting into the more experimental rules of it and such, my arguments thus far have just been the verbiage of the Void-Sig and you guys. I would love to show that rule from Catalyst to them.
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Vagabond
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| Posted: 16-Apr-2024 00:41 Post subject: Void-Signature fully active if you jump in place clarificati |
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See my 2nd post above, I posted the link.
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one must work hard to cultivate the mind and body. and one must always cultivate the mind.
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Dragnorian
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| Posted: 16-Apr-2024 00:42 Post subject: Void-Signature fully active if you jump in place clarificati |
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| Oh Paul is a official Catalyst representative?
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