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Vagabond
Mercenary
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 Posted: 12-Nov-2024 13:17 Post subject: Machine Guns |
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Other than tradition and it wasn't in the game design when it was created, I ponder whether the MG should be given a -1 or -2 to-hit mod.
The SPL and MiPL have become the god anti-infantry weapons of BT. Described as energy MGs with the same AI damage profile. However, they get a -2 to-hit for being pulse.
Furthermore, MGs don't benefit from TCs while SPL/MiPL do. So why not retcon the rules like they did with AMS and Pulse to give MGs a -1 or -2 to-hit. Except for Meme mechs like the Piranha, it will only have minor impacts on the current game balance.
Thoughts?
And Chihawk, you must provide at least a 6 word response other than No. lol.
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infiniteweasels
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Joined: 27-Jan-2024 19:09
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Location: Canada
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| Posted: 12-Nov-2024 13:35 Post subject: Machine Guns |
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In one of the books there's alternate rules for MGs where they do D6 damage+heat, and use 3x that much ammo.
I know its not what you're talking about exactly, but I tried that buff with friends a couple times now and it seems good - makes MGs actually useful, and a unique role.
Your idea of "pulse lasers but with ammo instead of heat" is kinda neat, and reminiscent of the differences between AMS and Laser AMS. If I were trying to implement it, I'd make Light Machineguns a 0 mod (they have increased range), Machineguns a -1, and heavy machineguns a -2.
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chihawk
Clan Blood Spirit
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Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
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Location: United States
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| Posted: 12-Nov-2024 16:48 Post subject: Re: Machine Guns |
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| Vagabond wrote: |
And Chihawk, you must provide at least a 6 word response other than No. lol. |
Machine guns are one of the silliest weapons in the game and shouldn't do any damage to 'Mechs at all. But if you are convinced they need to exist in the game world, they should be massively changed.
Make the range 2-4-6, give them 10 shots per ton of ammo, and roll on the 10 chart for each hit. They suffer a -2 penalty to that roll at medium range and -4 for long range. Ammo explodes at 10x shots remaining. Maybe keep the infantry damage the same, maybe change it, whatever. Someone else can work that out.
Light machine guns follow the same rules but do less damage, maybe the 6 table, but 'Mechs take no damage from them. Again, someone else can work out the infantry damage. Once you have completely figured out the LMG, figure out the HMG so the standard machine gun sits in the middle of all the info.
That enough words, my brother? 
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Mordel
Mordel.Net
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Joined: 03-Feb-2002 00:00
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Location: United States
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| Posted: 13-Nov-2024 11:40 Post subject: Re: Machine Guns |
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| chihawk wrote: | | Vagabond wrote: |
And Chihawk, you must provide at least a 6 word response other than No. lol. |
That enough words, my brother? |
NO!!
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Rudel Gurken
Allisters Light Thunder
Major
Joined: 15-Jun-2005 00:00
Posts: 1466
Location: Germany
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| Posted: 13-Nov-2024 12:40 Post subject: Machine Guns |
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Your rework seems reasonable . If you try to put more reality into BT weapons there are some more that need reworking 
Especially AC‘s and missiles.
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Vagabond
Mercenary
Mr. Referee
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
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Location: United States
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| Posted: 13-Nov-2024 18:39 Post subject: Re: Machine Guns |
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| Rudel Gurken wrote: | Your rework seems reasonable . If you try to put more reality into BT weapons there are some more that need reworking
Especially AC‘s and missiles. |
True, but i'm less worried about realism and more pondering the game mechanics. A -1 or -2 to-hit for the MG would make it a more desirable weapon system, when atm it is an after thought or only added by those who consider combined arms.
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chihawk
Clan Blood Spirit
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| Posted: 13-Nov-2024 19:38 Post subject: Re: Machine Guns |
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I can't think of any logical reason under the current game mechanics that machine guns should get a bonus to hit.
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chihawk
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| Posted: 14-Nov-2024 16:22 Post subject: Re: Machine Guns |
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| chihawk wrote: |
Machine guns are one of the silliest weapons in the game and shouldn't do any damage to 'Mechs at all. But if you are convinced they need to exist in the game world, they should be massively changed.
Make the range 2-4-6, give them 10 shots per ton of ammo, and roll on the 10 chart for each hit. They suffer a -2 penalty to that roll at medium range and -4 for long range. Ammo explodes at 10x shots remaining. Maybe keep the infantry damage the same, maybe change it, whatever. Someone else can work that out.
Light machine guns follow the same rules but do less damage, maybe the 6 table, but 'Mechs take no damage from them. Again, someone else can work out the infantry damage. Once you have completely figured out the LMG, figure out the HMG so the standard machine gun sits in the middle of all the info.
That enough words, my brother? |
After giving this a couple of moments of thought, the 10 chart is way too munchy. The 6 chart is probably best.
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Mordel
Mordel.Net
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| Posted: 14-Nov-2024 21:45 Post subject: Re: Machine Guns |
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| chihawk wrote: | | After giving this a couple of moments of thought, the 10 chart is way too munchy. The 6 chart is probably best. |
I'm pretty sure your REM sleep was dedicated to this topic.
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chihawk
Clan Blood Spirit
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| Posted: 15-Nov-2024 07:52 Post subject: Re: Machine Guns |
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| Mordel wrote: | | chihawk wrote: | | After giving this a couple of moments of thought, the 10 chart is way too munchy. The 6 chart is probably best. |
I'm pretty sure your REM sleep was dedicated to this topic. |
Production meeting at work, so same difference...
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infiniteweasels
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| Posted: 15-Nov-2024 13:32 Post subject: Re: Machine Guns |
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| chihawk wrote: | | I can't think of any logical reason under the current game mechanics that machine guns should get a bonus to hit. |
I think it works under the idea that rapid-fire weapons with tracers can be "walked in" on their target as you hold down the trigger, maximizing hits.
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chihawk
Clan Blood Spirit
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| Posted: 15-Nov-2024 13:47 Post subject: Machine Guns |
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If that were the only weapon you're firing, maybe. But game mechanically that's not how it works.
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infiniteweasels
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| Posted: 15-Nov-2024 14:23 Post subject: Re: Machine Guns |
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| I mean, isn't that why pulse lasers get a -2 to hit?
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chihawk
Clan Blood Spirit
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| Posted: 15-Nov-2024 14:34 Post subject: Machine Guns |
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Don't know, don't care.
I refer you to my previous comment, "Machine guns are one of the silliest weapons in the game and shouldn't do any damage to 'Mechs at all."
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