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Vagabond
Mercenary
Mr. Referee
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 5792
Location: United States
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 Posted: 09-Nov-2002 20:18 Post subject: Clans and Light Engines..... |
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would any of the clans retro engineer the light engine?
would it see wide use, or be considered obsolete?
logic assumes that a clan version, would only take up one critical in each torso's and weight the same as the IS versions. does that sound right?
anything i missed.
my opinion:
i do think the clans would reverse engineer the light engine as use it as there standard engine in all second line mechs. using the assumption that it would only take up one crit per side torso, then you could loose both side torso's and live. the only factor that would limit its use is cost.
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chihawk
Clan Blood Spirit
Master Bartender
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Location: United States
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| Posted: 09-Nov-2002 20:21 Post subject: RE: Clans and Light Engines..... |
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I think they're laughing at the light engine. They already have a better piece of equipment that takes up the same space.
Why waste money on R&D when you really don't gain anything?
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Vagabond
Mercenary
Mr. Referee
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| Posted: 09-Nov-2002 20:40 Post subject: RE: Clans and Light Engines..... |
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but they could further decrease the size and use it to replace the standard fussion engine in all there second line units. allowing for further weapons and armor without alot of risk and cost.
if it only has 2 extra slots, then its survivability is not much further off then that of a standard engine, but you get a decrease in weight.
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Kraken
Federated Suns
Marshal
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 2755
Location: United States
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| Posted: 09-Nov-2002 20:41 Post subject: RE: Clans and Light Engines..... |
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Actually, I think that the Clans might toy around with it to figure out strategy.
During the Twilight of the Clans, the Smoke Jaguars had some caputred IS mechs that they were taking back with them to Huntress for study. One of them was a Komodo; I'm not sure about the others.
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Horhiro
Draconis Combine
Samurai
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 1625
Location: United States
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| Posted: 09-Nov-2002 20:50 Post subject: RE: Clans and Light Engines..... |
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I love the IS light engine. A very fine piece of equipment which gives you survivability while gaining extra weight. Finally the IS case has some (game) use now also.
I like your idea for the Clan version; only taking up one Crit in each torso. It would certainly help in second line quad mechs where crit spaces are at a premium!
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chihawk
Clan Blood Spirit
Master Bartender
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Location: United States
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| Posted: 09-Nov-2002 21:07 Post subject: RE: Clans and Light Engines..... |
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There is no benefit for the Clans to use the IS light engine as it is now because they already have a better piece of equipment.
Why would they waste R&D money to build their own version?
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Stinger
The Knights of Chaos
General
Joined: 30-Apr-2002 00:00
Posts: 1833
Location: United States
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| Posted: 09-Nov-2002 22:40 Post subject: RE: Clans and Light Engines..... |
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I think hes talking about the Clans using the Light engins as a model and then making it even lighter and more compact than the clan current standard engine. Their R&D I think would tinker with it yes it would be bigger than a standard and be weight more than the the Xl but as a alternative to standard they might use it.
But I do think the clans would also look at the IS PPC capasitor to improve on their ERPPC performance.
In all reality I think the IS would have been able to bridge the gap between the 2 technologies by now. Looking at history during wartime conditions technology always move forward and sometimes at a rapid pace. since its been 17 years since the clans came in you cant tell me that the IS hasent been able to figure out how to make a ERPPC that is every equal to the Clan version.
But that is my humbel opion only.
Stinger
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Stinger
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chihawk
Clan Blood Spirit
Master Bartender
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
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Location: United States
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| Posted: 09-Nov-2002 23:01 Post subject: RE: Clans and Light Engines..... |
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Quote:
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On 2002-11-09 22:40, Stinger wrote:
I think hes talking about the Clans using the Light engins as a model and then making it even lighter and more compact than the clan current standard engine. Their R&D I think would tinker with it yes it would be bigger than a standard and be weight more than the the Xl but as a alternative to standard they might use it.
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The cost to make a Clan light engine would be prohibitive vs the gains they'd net. They have an engine that weighs half what a regular engine weighs and doesn't get destroyed when a mech loses a side torso.
What do they gain by researching a light engine?
Based on cost of R&D, nothing.
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But I do think the clans would also look at the IS PPC capasitor to improve on their ERPPC performance.
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How? The Clan ERPPC is already a very feared weapon. What would the Clans gain adding a capacitor to it?
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In all reality I think the IS would have been able to bridge the gap between the 2 technologies by now. Looking at history during wartime conditions technology always move forward and sometimes at a rapid pace. since its been 17 years since the clans came in you cant tell me that the IS hasent been able to figure out how to make a ERPPC that is every equal to the Clan version.
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The IS has already made HUGE advances in a very short time. No reason to think they'd be equal with the Clans in only 17 years.
Can anyone tell me of a piece of level 2 Clan equipment that has an equal IS version?
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Talen
Capellan Confederation
Sang-shao
Joined: 05-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 1269
Location: United States
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| Posted: 10-Nov-2002 01:54 Post subject: RE: Clans and Light Engines..... |
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On 2002-11-09 23:01, chihawk wrote:
The cost to make a Clan light engine would be prohibitive vs the gains they'd net. They have an engine that weighs half what a regular engine weighs and doesn't get destroyed when a mech loses a side torso.
What do they gain by researching a light engine?
Based on cost of R&D, nothing.
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Wrong. Most of their 2nd line 'mechs use Standard engines. The Clans would take the light engine, tinker, and make it so there would only be one crit per side torso. This would allow for a few extra tons of weapons on the 2nd line 'mechs at less cost and vunerability than an XL. All the major 2nd line 'mechs could be phased out/upgraded with little expense per unit. And, really...not all Clans would do this. Clan Ghost bear, along with its connections to the IS would be the first to do such, in my opinion.
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How? The Clan ERPPC is already a very feared weapon. What would the Clans gain adding a capacitor to it?
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By making an ammoless weapon as devestating as an AC-20. 5 extra points of damage at that range is killer. A fire support 'mech with 2 C-ERPPCs with the proper heat sinks would be devestating to the IS lines.
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Can anyone tell me of a piece of level 2 Clan equipment that has an equal IS version?
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Gauss rifle is the closest thing. Not equal..but close. And I agree. its about time the IS started having same level equipment as the Clans. All the seperation is just dumb now.
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Vagabond
Mercenary
Mr. Referee
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 5792
Location: United States
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| Posted: 10-Nov-2002 01:57 Post subject: RE: Clans and Light Engines..... |
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The cost to make a Clan light engine would be prohibitive vs the gains they'd net. They have an engine that weighs half what a regular engine weighs and doesn't get destroyed when a mech loses a side torso.
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but to have an engine that dosen't get destroyed after both side torso's are gone is worth something. you save weight and keep survivability for your second lines mechs, who imho shouldn't be mounting XL's.
as for RnD cost, it would be fairly cheep... as they'd be reverse engineering then adding there technological know how to increase it efficence.
i think this would be something the ghost bears, nova cats, or wolves in exhile would tinker with. using them to refit inner sphere chassies for second line duity.... and any other clan may do it, as it most defently NOT be a waist of rescources.
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Hardware
Clan Ghost Bear
Star Colonel
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 605
Location: United States
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| Posted: 10-Nov-2002 03:07 Post subject: RE: Clans and Light Engines..... |
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On 2002-11-10 01:54, Talen wrote:
Wrong. Most of their 2nd line 'mechs use Standard engines. The Clans would take the light engine, tinker, and make it so there would only be one crit per side torso. This would allow for a few extra tons of weapons on the 2nd line 'mechs at less cost and vunerability than an XL.
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HELLO!?! Are you listening? The Clan second line mechs are garrison and guard mechs.Why invest anything at all? You are talking about starting up a research and development program (very expensive) then tooling up a production line (very expensive) all to outfit a few cast off mechs with a new piece of technology that is inferior to a unit you already have in production??? The cost per unit would be astronomical. If the Clans were going to invest anything at all in one of these clunkers they would put a clan XL, which would net them even more weight saving, while keeping the survivability of losing one side torso and staying in the fight.
Realistically, if you lose a side torso you had better be figuring a way to get out of a fight, not stay in one. This is "real world military" not a one on one deathmatch. One or two engine hits from a lost torso means you have been in the fight way too long. The real saving is in weight, and the Clan XL does a better job than a light engine would.
That mech is worth millions, add the value of your stinking hide and it comes up to quite a tidy investment, SO BRING IT BACK!
Face it, if you could put a Clan XL or a light engine in your mech, which would you put in it?
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CO_17thRecon
Kell Hounds
Major
Joined: 10-Sep-2002 00:00
Posts: 1297
Location: United States
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| Posted: 10-Nov-2002 07:52 Post subject: RE: Clans and Light Engines..... |
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Quote:
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On 2002-11-09 22:40, Stinger wrote:
In all reality I think the IS would have been able to bridge the gap between the 2 technologies by now. Looking at history during wartime conditions technology always move forward and sometimes at a rapid pace. since its been 17 years since the clans came in you cant tell me that the IS hasent been able to figure out how to make a ERPPC that is every equal to the Clan version.
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If you read the MaxTech intro, the NAIS can make clan standard weapons.
BUT!
Each weapon must be hand made from materials rare even on New Avalon. Such a weapon would cost as much as a lance of BattleMechs. That's why the IS has no weapons that are comparable. They can make them, but they can't MASS PRODUCE them. And even if they could, it might be so expensive it would not be worth the effort.
As for myself, I can seen the clans tinkering with Light Engines, but I don't believe they'd ever do much with it.
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Nightmare
Lyran Alliance
Kommandant-General
Joined: 03-May-2002 00:00
Posts: 2214
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| Posted: 10-Nov-2002 08:16 Post subject: RE: Clans and Light Engines..... |
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I have this suspicion that the Clanners already have the Light Engine specs somewhere in their ancient databases. It`s probably an intermediate step in the way toward a full XL engine anyway  Perhaps they could re-design and build it even better today, but why bother? Second-line mechs are meant to be CHEAP, not state-of-the-art pinball machines.
Besides, could you imagine a Behemoth with a Clan Light Engine? Just forget the thought, it`s better for all of us...
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chihawk
Clan Blood Spirit
Master Bartender
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 8081
Location: United States
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| Posted: 10-Nov-2002 08:20 Post subject: RE: Clans and Light Engines..... |
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I think Hardware's reply on 2002-11-10 03:07 really says it all.
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Ruger
Lyran Alliance
Hauptmann General
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 2104
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| Posted: 10-Nov-2002 09:43 Post subject: RE: Clans and Light Engines..... |
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On 2002-11-10 08:16, Nightmare wrote:
I have this suspicion that the Clanners already have the Light Engine specs somewhere in their ancient databases. It`s probably an intermediate step in the way toward a full XL engine anyway
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Unless the Star League did, there would be no reason for the Clans to have this tech...the XL was developed by the League after all...
Ruger
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