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Paul Capellan Confederation Sang-wei
Joined: 25-Feb-2002 00:00 Posts: 255 Location: United States
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Posted: 27-Nov-2002 16:41 Post subject: Some House Rules for Pulse Lasers |
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Considering the success I've had with getting responses for my AC ideas, I thought I'd run some other thoughts by you all.
Pulse lasers. I'm sure everyone's faced and/or played with a pulse/TC or a pulse/jump 'Mech by now.
I'm sure most people would agree that pulse lasers, esspecially the Clan ones, are a favored tool of munchkins.
IMHO, Clan pulse lasers are unbalanced. (And I'm a Clanner as much as a Capellan to... )
IS PLs aren't that bad, almost to the point of being useless. You either need speed to get yourself close enough to use them, or you need to be an assault, where you can be somewhat sure that things will move close enough to you.
I'm not looking to start a huge debate about whether that's true or not, but based on the above assumptions, I've thought of the following rules.
Based on descriptions from the BoK trilogy, I believe that the initial intent for pulse lasers was to operate much hotter then standard lasers. Additionally, I feel that they were intended to 'spread' creating an effect not unlike LBX Cluster. Pulse laser fire is still often described as if a small cloud of laser pulses drilling into an area.
Many things seem to have changed between the point where the novels were written and the art for the Mechs were made (Mark 1 OmniMechs) and I believe that the power of the PLs is a mistake just like the GR stats are a bit of a booboo.
As such, I would do the following to pulse lasers:
Clan:
* Downsize the damage the Clan PLs do to MPL: 6 and LPL: 9.
* Reduce the Clan PL range; SPL: stays the same. MPL: 3/6/9 LPL: 5/10/15
IS:
* Reduce the IS LPL range: 3/6/9
Weird ranges irk my anal mind. Although I suppose 3/7/10 could be 3.5/7/10.5 rounded down. *shrug*
Both IS and Clan:
* Increase the heat PL produce: SPL do 3 heat, MPL do 6 heat, LPL do 12 heat
* Resolve damage differently: after a successful to-hit, roll for 3 different locations.
SPL's do 1 damage to each location, MPL's 2, LPL's 3.
This rule will force some changes in how they can be used with TC's. I'm inclined to rule that, like LBX cluster, you cannot target a single location with pulse lasers and a TC.
Since it shotguns a bunch of light, rather then providing either a single slug (GR and AC depending on what fluff you like), a small stream of slugs (AC, depending on preferred fluff) or a single event. (PPC's and normal lasers)
However, the -1 to-hit bonus of TC's do still apply.
Thus, you could aim with both PPC's at the CT needing 8's while the 2 LPL's need a 4 to-hit using a Warhawk C who is at 7 range.
(PPC's: base 3 + 3 targetting CT + 2 movement.
LPLs: base 3 + 2 range + 2 movement - 1 TC - 2 pulse )
All this makes PLs less powerful, and gives another reason to get std lasers over PL's. Better penetration.
PLs however make great support weapons, and esspecially the Clan MPL and LPL become less dominant. Striking multiple locations without using up ammo such as missile launchers and LBX makes them an interesting alternative. Their -2 bonus still makes them interesting, although less overpowering. On fast 'Mechs, or slow Mechs who like an MPL or 2 to shield their backs with from fast jumpers, the PLs remain roughly as useful.
The amount of fuss with this is minimal. Adjust some heat and some ranges (all of which follow the std patern for ranges).
You only lose a bit in having to roll 3 times as much for locations.
IMHO, hitting many locations is a boon in many cases. Greater chance of hitting the head, getting a floating crit, or of striking that location that lacks armor.
Admitedly, some designs will run quite a bit hotter. If you can't handle the heat, hand over your Mech sheet. =)
Well, that's about it. What do you all think?
Paul
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AlexxKnight Federated Suns Colonel
Joined: 11-Feb-2002 00:00 Posts: 787
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Posted: 30-Nov-2002 18:00 Post subject: RE: Some House Rules for Pulse Lasers |
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I think that they sound reasonable and well thought out. I myself would like to see these rules in action first, but I think that based on your statements up front that these rules balance out the problems associated with Pulse Lasers. I myslef always thought of a Pulse laser as the Machine Gun of Lasers so to speak. Overall well thought out and balanced. I can't think of any reason rihgt now as to why they would unbalance the game.
_________________ Alexx Knight, Lance Sgt.
Command Company, Crimson Janissaries
-----------------------------------------------------
The path of the righteous man is beset on all sides by the inequities of the selfish and the tyranny of evil men. . . And you
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Karagin Imperial Karagin Army Imperial General
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00 Posts: 4120 Location: United States
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Posted: 30-Nov-2002 18:50 Post subject: RE: Some House Rules for Pulse Lasers |
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A friend of mine had rules where you rolled on the Missile Table and that was how many "pulses" hit, I will have to dig up the rules/idea and see what all was in them...
_________________ Karagin Only the dead have seen the end of war. - Plato
"Wasted trip Man. Nobody said nuthin' about lockin' horns with no tigers." Oddball
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Stinger The Knights of Chaos General
Joined: 30-Apr-2002 00:00 Posts: 1833 Location: United States
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Posted: 30-Nov-2002 21:56 Post subject: RE: Some House Rules for Pulse Lasers |
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I really like the rules. I have often thought that the PL's were a little silly as they stood now and I prefer the regular lasers to them. Your rules as you have them written make them realistic and useful as city fighting weapons. I think I would like to see the ranges pushed outa little bit more, to mabey 4-short 8-med 12-long for the large pulse laser, and 3-short 6-med 9 long (if I misread them and that is what they are at sorry ) But over all very well thought out.
I was working on new rule's for lasers a while ago that looked like:
Weapon Heat E-Dam I-Dam
L-laser 12 8 3
M-laser 5 4 2
S-laser 2 3 -
The main difference was E-damage was External Damage and I-damage was Internal damage with a chance to roll on the crit table. (I partially designed this to allow for faster games, I havent play tested it thought). Ill have to finish working on them and post them eventually.
Stinger _________________ Stinger If it's "creepy" to use the Internet, military satellites, and robot aircraft to find a house full of gorgeous young models so I can drop in on them unexpected, then FINE, I'm "creepy". Howard Wolowitz. BBT.
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Shadowking Kell Hounds Captain
Joined: 22-May-2002 00:00 Posts: 365 Location: United States
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Posted: 02-Dec-2002 08:03 Post subject: RE: Some House Rules for Pulse Lasers |
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The idea of pulses is more like standard AC's than LBX's. They aren't firing with a shotgun effect. It's more of a one shot after another, ie pulses. As how the fluff states, standard AC's do like a 'walking fire' sorta effect. Because of the consistant fire, the pilot can more easily 'walk' the pulses over to the target in order to hit unlike a standard solid beam laser. Which of course would cause reason to think, why don't standard AC's have a negative to hit as well?
As for changing the weapons to more balance them, I would have to think maybe downing the range of the Clan's is better, maybe to match the IS standard lasers. IE, LPL goes 15, MPL = 9, though maybe give SPL 4-5 rather than 3 . And as you've already stated before, IS pulses are already pretty crappy so to speak, so I can't really see any reason to have them changed. I could also see pulses as maybe rolling on a 2 or 3 table to see how many shots hit. Obviously with a damage decrease though. Anymore than 2-3 shots is too many though.
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Jade_Dragon 8th Sword of Light Sho-sho
Joined: 05-Feb-2002 00:00 Posts: 1326 Location: United States
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Posted: 02-Dec-2002 09:49 Post subject: RE: Some House Rules for Pulse Lasers |
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I have long thought that Pulse Lasers and their fluff did not match up. I have had house rules similar, though not as well thought out, in the back of my mind for some time.
Thanks for putting them out for the rest of us to pick apart.
_________________ The JadeDragon
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Paul Capellan Confederation Sang-wei
Joined: 25-Feb-2002 00:00 Posts: 255 Location: United States
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Posted: 02-Dec-2002 09:50 Post subject: RE: Some House Rules for Pulse Lasers |
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Quote:
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On 2002-11-30 21:56, Stinger wrote:
I really like the rules. I have often thought that the PL's were a little silly as they stood now and I prefer the regular lasers to them. Your rules as you have them written make them realistic and useful as city fighting weapons.
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Glad you like em!
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I think I would like to see the ranges pushed outa little bit more, to mabey 4-short 8-med 12-long for the large pulse laser, and 3-short 6-med 9 long (if I misread them and that is what they are at sorry ) But over all very well thought out.
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I admit that the first post could've done with some clarification towards the end. Let me try to rectify that here. *cracks knuckles and begins to HTML out some schtuff*
Weapon | Short | Medium | Long | Damage |
IS SPL | 1 | 2 | 3 | 3 |
IS MPL | 2 | 4 | 6 | 6 |
IS LPL | 3 | 6 | 9 | 9 |
Clan SPL | 2 | 4 | 6 | 3 |
Clan MPL | 3 | 6 | 9 | 6 |
Clan LPL | 5 | 10 | 15 | 9 |
So, if your Q regarding range came in respect to the Clan PLs, I think I got you covered. If it's about the IS PL's, I'd rather not change them, otherwise the improvements on the Clan models is limited to none.
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I was working on new rule's for lasers a while ago that looked like:
Weapon Heat E-Dam I-Dam
L-laser 12 8 3
M-laser 5 4 2
S-laser 2 3 -
The main difference was E-damage was External Damage and I-damage was Internal damage with a chance to roll on the crit table. (I partially designed this to allow for faster games, I havent play tested it thought). Ill have to finish working on them and post them eventually.
Stinger
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Well, on the surface, this appears to make lasers way too powerful. You'll run out of internals faster then armor, and I don't see why anyone'd use anything other then large and medium lasers with those rules.
Perhaps go the way of the AP AC ammo? a LL does 1 crit damage if it rolls 9 or mote, and a ML does 1 crit damage if it rolls 10 or 11 or more?
Just a thought.
Paul
Edit edit edit: Pesky HTML.
[ This Message was edited by: Paul on 2002-12-02 09:59 ]
[ This Message was edited by: Paul on 2002-12-02 10:03 ]
[ This Message was edited by: Paul on 2002-12-02 10:04 ]
[ This Message was edited by: Paul on 2002-12-02 10:08 ]
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Paul Capellan Confederation Sang-wei
Joined: 25-Feb-2002 00:00 Posts: 255 Location: United States
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Posted: 02-Dec-2002 10:10 Post subject: RE: Some House Rules for Pulse Lasers |
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Sounds pretty interesting.
Lemme know if you find it.
Paul
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Paul Capellan Confederation Sang-wei
Joined: 25-Feb-2002 00:00 Posts: 255 Location: United States
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Posted: 02-Dec-2002 10:23 Post subject: RE: Some House Rules for Pulse Lasers |
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On 2002-12-02 08:03, Shadowking wrote:
The idea of pulses is more like standard AC's than LBX's. They aren't firing with a shotgun effect. It's more of a one shot after another, ie pulses. As how the fluff states, standard AC's do like a 'walking fire' sorta effect. Because of the consistant fire, the pilot can more easily 'walk' the pulses over to the target in order to hit unlike a standard solid beam laser. Which of course would cause reason to think, why don't standard AC's have a negative to hit as well?
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Perhaps I chose a poor example to explain my idea.
I tend to agree except that I see PLs a bit like how I see LBX AC's: They are kinda like an automatic shotgun.
Alexxknight compared them to machineguns, which is perhaps equally apt.
As for why AC's don't get any bonusses; perhaps if they didn't 'walk', they'd get a +2 penalty.
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As for changing the weapons to more balance them, I would have to think maybe downing the range of the Clan's is better, maybe to match the IS standard lasers. IE, LPL goes 15, MPL = 9, though maybe give SPL 4-5 rather than 3 .
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I realize it prob wasn't too clear from my first post, but that's basically what I did. I wrote out the ranges in another post. Let me know how that looks to you.
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And as you've already stated before, IS pulses are already pretty crappy so to speak, so I can't really see any reason to have them changed.
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Aye, I basically left them alone.
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I could also see pulses as maybe rolling on a 2 or 3 table to see how many shots hit. Obviously with a damage decrease though. Anymore than 2-3 shots is too many though.
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That was kind of the effect I was going for, except I didn't include the step of rolling on a missile table.
I might change my mind depending on how the rules Karagin referenced to look.
Paul
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Paul Capellan Confederation Sang-wei
Joined: 25-Feb-2002 00:00 Posts: 255 Location: United States
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Posted: 02-Dec-2002 10:27 Post subject: RE: Some House Rules for Pulse Lasers |
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On 2002-12-02 09:49, Jade_Dragon wrote:
I have long thought that Pulse Lasers and their fluff did not match up. I have had house rules similar, though not as well thought out, in the back of my mind for some time.
Thanks for putting them out for the rest of us to pick apart.
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Cool! I'm glad you like em.
If you see anything that could use some improvement, lemme know.
Paul
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Paul Capellan Confederation Sang-wei
Joined: 25-Feb-2002 00:00 Posts: 255 Location: United States
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Posted: 02-Dec-2002 10:36 Post subject: RE: Some House Rules for Pulse Lasers |
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On 2002-11-30 18:00, AlexxKnight wrote:
I think that they sound reasonable and well thought out. I myself would like to see these rules in action first, but I think that based on your statements up front that these rules balance out the problems associated with Pulse Lasers. I myslef always thought of a Pulse laser as the Machine Gun of Lasers so to speak. Overall well thought out and balanced. I can't think of any reason rihgt now as to why they would unbalance the game.
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Glad you like em!
Haven't had much time to playtest these, although a Wraith vs Griffin 3M game really turned into a death by papercuts game. Very little armor left on either side when the Griffin died.
It didn't get init enough. When it did, I usually managed to place it for some decent LRM shots, but every time it lost, it tended to suffer from minimum range too much.
Still: good fun.
Paul
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Stinger The Knights of Chaos General
Joined: 30-Apr-2002 00:00 Posts: 1833 Location: United States
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Posted: 02-Dec-2002 13:14 Post subject: RE: Some House Rules for Pulse Lasers |
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Yeah I was playing with the laser rules out of boredom oneday, and I was never really happy with them. But they have been shelved for a loooooonng time and dont see them getting reworked at all.
I like what youve done. I may have to give them a test here soon to see how they work.
Stinger _________________ Stinger If it's "creepy" to use the Internet, military satellites, and robot aircraft to find a house full of gorgeous young models so I can drop in on them unexpected, then FINE, I'm "creepy". Howard Wolowitz. BBT.
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Paul Capellan Confederation Sang-wei
Joined: 25-Feb-2002 00:00 Posts: 255 Location: United States
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Posted: 02-Dec-2002 15:59 Post subject: RE: Some House Rules for Pulse Lasers |
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On 2002-12-02 13:14, Stinger wrote:
Yeah I was playing with the laser rules out of boredom oneday, and I was never really happy with them. But they have been shelved for a loooooonng time and dont see them getting reworked at all.
I like what youve done. I may have to give them a test here soon to see how they work.
Stinger
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Cool. Let me know how it goes.
Paul
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