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CO_17thRecon
Kell Hounds
Major
Joined: 10-Sep-2002 00:00
Posts: 1297
Location: United States
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 Posted: 06-Jan-2003 22:16 Post subject: Lvl 2: Marshal MHL-X2 |
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It occured to me that the Marshal, though a decent 'Mech, was always over shadowed by...well, everything. So I decided to make a simple variant that brings out the Marshal's strengths while alleviating it's bit weakness, speed. Here it is, folks. (BTW, thanks to Vagabond who made some suggestions, thought I didn't follow them all.)
BattleMech Technical Readout
Type/Model: Marshal MHL-X2
Tech: Inner Sphere / 3060
Config: Biped BattleMech
Rules: Level 2, Standard design
Mass: 55 tons
Chassis: Earthwerk GRF Endo Steel
Power Plant: 275 Magna Fusion
Walking Speed: 54.0 km/h
Maximum Speed: 86.4 km/h
Jump Jets: 5 Rawlings 55 Standard Jump Jets
Jump Capacity: 150 meters
Armor Type: Durallex Medium Standard
Armament:
1 PPC
1 Medium Laser
8 Rocket Launcher 10s
1 Medium Pulse Laser
2 Machine Guns
1 Flamer
Manufacturer: Taurus Territorial Industries
Location: Taurus / TC (TTI)
Communications System: Neil 9000-A
Targeting & Tracking System: Octagon Tartrac System C
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Type/Model: Marshal MHL-X2
Mass: 55 tons
Equipment: Crits Mass
Int. Struct.: 91 pts Endo Steel 14 3.00
(Endo Steel Loc: 1 HD, 4 LA, 3 RA, 3 LT, 3 RT)
Engine: 275 6 15.50
Walking MP: 5
Running MP: 8
Jumping MP: 5
Heat Sinks: 10 Double [20] 0 .00
Gyro: 4 3.00
Cockpit, Life Supt., Sensors: 5 3.00
Actuators: L: Sh+UA+LA+H R: Sh+UA+LA+H 16 .00
Armor Factor: 176 pts Standard 0 11.00
Internal Armor
Structure Value
Head: 3 9
Center Torso: 18 26
Center Torso (Rear): 9
L/R Side Torso: 13 20/20
L/R Side Torso (Rear): 6/6
L/R Arm: 9 18/18
L/R Leg: 13 22/22
Weapons and Equipment Loc Heat Ammo Crits Mass
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1 PPC RA 10 3 7.00
1 Medium Laser LA 3 1 1.00
8 Rocket Launcher 10s RT 24 8 4.00
1 Medium Pulse Laser RT 4 1 2.00
2 Machine Guns LT 0 100 3 1.50
(Ammo Locations: 1 LT)
1 Flamer CT 3 1 1.00
CASE Equipment: LT 1 .50
5 Standard Jump Jets: 5 2.50
(Jump Jet Loc: 1 CT, 2 LL, 2 RL)
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TOTALS: 20 68 55.00
Crits & Tons Left: 10 .00
Calculated Factors:
Total Cost: 5,367,856 C-Bills
Battle Value: 1,431
Cost per BV: 3,751.12
Weapon Value: 1,455 / 1,455 (Ratio = 1.02 / 1.02)
Damage Factors: SRDmg = 43; MRDmg = 25; LRDmg = 9
BattleForce2: MP: 5J, Armor/Structure: 4/5
Damage PB/M/L: 3/2/1, Overheat: 1
Class: MM; Point Value: 14
Somewhat more expensive, but unless you're a militia unit, the difference shouldn't matter.
_________________
Major Joseph Garbo
CO 17th Recon Battalion,
Harewood's Harvesters
“An engineer can look at a pile of junk and tell you what it was, a good one can tell you what went wrong and an expert engineer can put the pile of junk back together.”
[ This Message was edited by: CO_17thRecon on 2003-01-06 22:17 ]
_________________
Jarylan Blackwell
"What the...?! Where did you get THAT?!"
"Creative aquisition."
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Karagin
Imperial Karagin Army
Imperial General
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 4120
Location: United States
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| Posted: 06-Jan-2003 22:52 Post subject: RE: Lvl 2: Marshal MHL-X2 |
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Overall it's nice, but I could do with out the RLs...to me they shouldn't be used on a mech, their one shot nature makes them more ideal for VTOLs and fast hovercraft.
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Karagin
Only the dead have seen the end of war. - Plato
"Wasted trip Man. Nobody said nuthin' about lockin' horns with no tigers." Oddball
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Vagabond
Mercenary
Mr. Referee
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 5792
Location: United States
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| Posted: 07-Jan-2003 01:03 Post subject: RE: Lvl 2: Marshal MHL-X2 |
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well, seeing as that rl/10 has the same damage power as an lrm 10, and you can either fire them 1 at a time or full barrage, it kinda works out.
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one must work hard to cultivate the mind and body. and one must always cultivate the mind.
//^(^_^)^\\
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Karagin
Imperial Karagin Army
Imperial General
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 4120
Location: United States
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| Posted: 07-Jan-2003 05:57 Post subject: RE: Lvl 2: Marshal MHL-X2 |
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With the LRM10 I have more chances to hit once I fire it...it has ammo. The RL10 is a one shot hit or miss you wasted it weapon.
Once you use it, it's gone, thus you have to be at least at short range to get the needed to hit number to BE SURE of solid hit.
Sorry but to me this spells trouble for most mechs and that renders the RLs as something I wouldn't use on a mech.
Now on a VTOL these things are a god send, but on a mech they are a laibility.
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Karagin
Only the dead have seen the end of war. - Plato
"Wasted trip Man. Nobody said nuthin' about lockin' horns with no tigers." Oddball
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AlexxKnight
Federated Suns
Colonel
Joined: 11-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 787
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| Posted: 07-Jan-2003 08:27 Post subject: RE: Lvl 2: Marshal MHL-X2 |
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I have to agree with Karagin here. RLs just don't ofer enough staying power that is one of the great thnigs about mechs. What good does it do you, if you loose your main weapons early in the battle? NONE! You are now more of a liability than an assest on the field.
_________________
Alexx Knight, Lance Sgt.
Command Company, Crimson Janissaries
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The path of the righteous man is beset on all sides by the inequities of the selfish and the tyranny of evil men. . . And you
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CO_17thRecon
Kell Hounds
Major
Joined: 10-Sep-2002 00:00
Posts: 1297
Location: United States
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| Posted: 07-Jan-2003 08:34 Post subject: RE: Lvl 2: Marshal MHL-X2 |
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I still don't see how RLs don't have staying power, for the weight of a an LRM10 with 12 shots, I can mount 12 RL10s. And for an LRM15, 8 RL15s, and for a LRM20 I can mount 6 RL20s. Staying power is not a problem. It's exactly the same as LRMs. I just like trading the Minimum range for the single +1 modifer. If you REALLY don't like RLs, and I can't see why, replace these with an LRM10 and a ton of ammo.
_________________
Major Joseph Garbo
CO 17th Recon Battalion,
Harewood's Harvesters
“An engineer can look at a pile of junk and tell you what it was, a good one can tell you what went wrong and an expert engineer can put the pile of junk back together.”
[ This Message was edited by: CO_17thRecon on 2003-01-07 08:34 ]
_________________
Jarylan Blackwell
"What the...?! Where did you get THAT?!"
"Creative aquisition."
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Karagin
Imperial Karagin Army
Imperial General
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 4120
Location: United States
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| Posted: 07-Jan-2003 08:57 Post subject: RE: Lvl 2: Marshal MHL-X2 |
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If they hit RLs are going to hurt, BUT if they miss you lost the chance to do the damage. The LRMs have the advantage of having another chance to dish out damage where as the RLs don't.
In a short fight sure the RLs will cause lots of holes in a mech, but what happens when your enemy doesn't close to short range or stays at medium to long range? If you shot the RLs off, you have less chance of hit, and LOSE one of your weapons, but if the mech had an LRM instead it could take the chance to fire at long range and medium range with out the fear of lossing one of it's weapons.
RLs would be great on Solaris and it's arena style fighting but beyond that they really DON'T have a place on mechs, IMVHO.
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Karagin
Only the dead have seen the end of war. - Plato
"Wasted trip Man. Nobody said nuthin' about lockin' horns with no tigers." Oddball
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Raven!
Clan Snow Raven
Galaxy Commander
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 1326
Location: United States
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| Posted: 07-Jan-2003 09:04 Post subject: RE: Lvl 2: Marshal MHL-X2 |
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umm... dude. You have 12 RL10s. an LRM 10 gets 12 shots. If you miss with one RL10, you get another. If you miss with one ton of LRM 10 ammo, you get another. The RL's are able to be swapped with the LRMs without loss of fire power. The RL simply give you the option to fire off all your shots in one big barrage, but the statistical damage ratio remains the same.
Raven, who thought the whole arguement was a little ammusing!
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Karagin
Imperial Karagin Army
Imperial General
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 4120
Location: United States
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| Posted: 07-Jan-2003 09:18 Post subject: RE: Lvl 2: Marshal MHL-X2 |
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One ton of ammo? I don't recall saying that the LRM is going to fire that off each time it fires.
The RLs are limited in that they are NOT cost effective to fire beyond Medium range. Which means a smart player is going to stay at long range and force you to move into the range of his guns to use these ONE SHOT wonder weapons. Thus you get hurt using a ONE SHOT weapon that is better used on a VTOL that can move into the area get behind a mech and do the massive damage and get out before the other side has real chance of doing any return damage.
On a mech the RLs become more of a handicap since they force you to close range to get better to hit rolls and once the RL is used it's gone just like the ONE SHOT SRMs.
Meanwhile the unit with LRM that has ammo can stand off fire two to three shots AT LONG RANGE, then move into medium range and not have to worry about losing AN ENTIRE WEAPON system to gain a maybe hit.
The nature of the RLs in that they dish out a lot of damage forces the user to be at short range to gain the fully effect of that damage. Which again has way to many draw backs to make their use on mechs worth while.
They belong vehicles, like VTOLs and one conventional fighters and aerospace fighters all of which can MOVE into the range to use these weapons to their utmost.
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Karagin
Only the dead have seen the end of war. - Plato
"Wasted trip Man. Nobody said nuthin' about lockin' horns with no tigers." Oddball
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Jade_Dragon
8th Sword of Light
Sho-sho
Joined: 05-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 1326
Location: United States
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| Posted: 07-Jan-2003 09:37 Post subject: RE: Lvl 2: Marshal MHL-X2 |
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The only, and I mean only reason I would want a LRM over a RL is range. In my opinion in every other case the RL wins. Also in most battles that I have ever fought the range gets close sooner or later.
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The JadeDragon
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Karagin
Imperial Karagin Army
Imperial General
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 4120
Location: United States
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| Posted: 07-Jan-2003 09:41 Post subject: RE: Lvl 2: Marshal MHL-X2 |
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Fine, I disagree and think they are a waste on mechs.
Again it comes down to how each of us plays, I don't see ANY thing the RLs really give you over the LRMs and since they are one shot they lose out on being counted on.
SO if you want to use them use, I won't.
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Karagin
Only the dead have seen the end of war. - Plato
"Wasted trip Man. Nobody said nuthin' about lockin' horns with no tigers." Oddball
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Nightmare
Lyran Alliance
Kommandant-General
Joined: 03-May-2002 00:00
Posts: 2214
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| Posted: 07-Jan-2003 10:04 Post subject: RE: Lvl 2: Marshal MHL-X2 |
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I certainly wouldn`t swap LRM systems for RLs, if nothing else I might want to use specialist ammo. As for bolting on something when you have a ton-and-a-half to spare and can`t find anything better, sure.
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Karagin
Imperial Karagin Army
Imperial General
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 4120
Location: United States
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| Posted: 07-Jan-2003 10:05 Post subject: RE: Lvl 2: Marshal MHL-X2 |
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1.5 tons I would rather have a medium laser and a small laser. Or more armor. Over taking a RL...
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Karagin
Only the dead have seen the end of war. - Plato
"Wasted trip Man. Nobody said nuthin' about lockin' horns with no tigers." Oddball
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Kyu Kage
ComStar
Captain
Joined: 16-Sep-2002 00:00
Posts: 503
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| Posted: 07-Jan-2003 13:47 Post subject: RE: Lvl 2: Marshal MHL-X2 |
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As I mentioned in the 'First Mech' thread, the Marshall is my sig mech. I like this version, the RL is okay by me, but I normally prefer not to use them.
Any way, I have two major variants I use (the K1's), and two not so much (the K2's). In them, I remove the Medium Pulse Laser and Flamer, then replace with the following:
Marshall MHL-K1A:
-2 x Medium Laser
-1 x Heat Sink
Marshall MHL-K1B:
-1 x Medium Laser
-2 x ER Small Laser
-1 x Heat Sink
Marshall MHL-K2A:
-1 x Medium Laser
-1 x Armour
-1 x Heat Sink
Marshall MHL-K2B:
-Remove both MG's and Ammo
-1 x Medium Laser
-1.5 x Armour
-2 x Heat Sink
The K1A was the first designed, and is (IMHO) an improvement of the standard.
I find the K2B to be the most effective in pitched battles, and the K1B is my close qaurters machine, and also the one I use most often, as I find it well rounded and balanced.
Anyway, I like this version.
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Loyalty above all else except honour!
[ This Message was edited by: Kyu Kage on 2003-01-07 13:53 ]
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Loyalty above all else except honour!
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Vagabond
Mercenary
Mr. Referee
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 5792
Location: United States
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| Posted: 07-Jan-2003 15:43 Post subject: RE: Lvl 2: Marshal MHL-X2 |
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Quote:
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I don't see ANY thing the RLs really give you over the LRMs and since they are one shot they lose out on being counted on.
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where telling you what they have over LRM's.... your just refusing to listen.
an LRM 10 w/1 ton ammo weights 6 tons and has 12 shots.
12 rl/10's weight 6 tons.
LRMs have range but a huge minimum, RLs have less range but no minimum and a +1 to-hit.
LRM 10 fires 10 missiles over 12 turns, 12 RL/10's can fire 10 missiles over 12 turns BUT can choose to fire 120 missile in 1 turn.
lrm 10 has 4 heat, RL/10 3 heat.
your argument is pretty mute..... UNLESS your using more then 1 ton of ammo on your launcher. yes an LRM can afford to miss an be usefull, but so can 1 of your 12 RL/10's. as you said, a smart pilot would stay at range, well a smart RL using pilot wouldn't fire off his intire complment of RL's UNLESS its to lay down the final blow.
now i'm not here to say you should like LRM's less, just saying that you should look at the hard evidence presented before you. no pilot should use a system they dislike, but neither should the demeen a system that has merit or mechs that use said system.
like it or not, RL's now have a place on mechs, and more designs will use the system. a good example is the 3rd world archer... still a perfect support mech, but mounting munitions that any industrilized nation should be able to make.
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one must work hard to cultivate the mind and body. and one must always cultivate the mind.
//^(^_^)^\\
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