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Gangrene
Federated Suns
Leftenant General
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 939
Location: United States
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 Posted: 26-Jan-2003 17:07 Post subject: ditching the heat scale |
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I have a confession: I like streamlined, fast-paced gameplay that doesn't require a lot of accounting. I identify with a lot of newer players of the videogame age who don't want to spend all day setting up and playing a tabletop game. I would rather just play for 2 or 3 hours and then move on. And despite what I may say about the implementation or story of MW:DA, I think the core "clicky" system of game mechanics is a great idea. Battletech could be a more enjoyable, and marketable, game if it eased up on the accounting, IMO.
One part of Btech that has always kind of dragged for me was the heat scale. It's one of the main reasons I design all my mechs to not overheat. I haven't liked it for 14 years and its not growing on me. I would like to see the heat scale bumped up to L3, or at least kicked out of L1 play. To adjust the game so as to compensate, I think the heat should be accounted for in the design of the mech. For L1 play, a rule could be added that only heat balanced mechs can be used.
Does anyone else think feel the way I do about accounting for heat? Or do you all like the heat scale the way it is?
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Gangrene
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Vagabond
Mercenary
Mr. Referee
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 5781
Location: United States
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| Posted: 26-Jan-2003 17:52 Post subject: RE: ditching the heat scale |
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does the heat scale heat slow down play? yes.
does the heat scale require hours of time to perfect its use? not really.
does the heat scale make things interesting? it used too.
in lvl 1 play heat mattered. in lvl 2 its a mild annoyance.
gone are the days of, DO i fire my ppc or cool down this 8 heat i have?
IMHO the ability to heat up seperates BT from other sci-fi war game. other wise theres no tactics involved in combat. its now just a game of movement.
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AlexxKnight
Federated Suns
Colonel
Joined: 11-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 787
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| Posted: 26-Jan-2003 18:18 Post subject: RE: ditching the heat scale |
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I have to agree with Vagabond. I really don't see the fun of game if everyone goes around aplha striking everyturn. There doeesn;t seem to be a whole of challenge to it anymore.
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Command Company, Crimson Janissaries
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The path of the righteous man is beset on all sides by the inequities of the selfish and the tyranny of evil men. . . And you
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Nightmare
Lyran Alliance
Kommandant-General
Joined: 03-May-2002 00:00
Posts: 2214
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| Posted: 27-Jan-2003 01:27 Post subject: RE: ditching the heat scale |
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Well, it does move part of the challenge from the battlefield into the mech lab. Some players like designing mechs more than actually trying to work with one that isn`t perfect already. Personally I`m not afraid to ride the heat scale, withdrawing to cool down or risking it all for an Alpha Strike.
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Stinger
The Knights of Chaos
General
Joined: 30-Apr-2002 00:00
Posts: 1833
Location: United States
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| Posted: 27-Jan-2003 13:27 Post subject: RE: ditching the heat scale |
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I can go either way on this one. I tend to prefer machines that run cool. Or at the very least are very easy to figure out the heat scale. (I.e. firing 6 of 6 weapons brings my heat to +5 on the chart, next round firing 5 of 6 and Im back to 0 heat). The groups I play with are usually very large of 8 to 10 players and a 7 hour game is fun but by the end everyone is slipping in their accounting.
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If it's "creepy" to use the Internet, military satellites, and robot aircraft to find a house full of gorgeous young models so I can drop in on them unexpected, then FINE, I'm "creepy". Howard Wolowitz. BBT.
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Talen
Capellan Confederation
Sang-shao
Joined: 05-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 1269
Location: United States
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| Posted: 27-Jan-2003 14:38 Post subject: RE: ditching the heat scale |
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I hate the heat scale...as it does slow gameplay down. But, yeah...I think the scale is part of what keeps the game unique.
Streamlining the scale might be better...I dont know. I like cool running machines...but I do run the hot kind too.
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Jade_Dragon
8th Sword of Light
Sho-sho
Joined: 05-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 1326
Location: United States
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| Posted: 27-Jan-2003 14:49 Post subject: RE: ditching the heat scale |
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BattleTech is not BattleTech without the heat scale. I have not noticed it slowing down any of my games too much.
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Karagin
Imperial Karagin Army
Imperial General
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 4120
Location: United States
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| Posted: 27-Jan-2003 15:48 Post subject: RE: ditching the heat scale |
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I think the heat scale needs to be adjusted to take in acount double heat sinks to some degree (no pun intended).
As it stands right now, 60% of the munchkin mechs are alpha strike 0 heat build no matter what you do. This is one of the BIGGEST and most expolited loopholes in the game next to the all clan pulse/Targ combos that seems to be the munchkins' favorites and when these are plugged into the prefection of having 0 heat build up even when running, walking and jumping is taken into account they become the bane of the game.
As to how to adjust it, I would say either make the weapons ALL run hotter, or adjust the numbers so no matter what the mechs does it builds up heat that isn't easally gotten rid of...say 5 points for just being turned on then add the movement and weapons fire to that...or something like that.
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Karagin
Only the dead have seen the end of war. - Plato
"Wasted trip Man. Nobody said nuthin' about lockin' horns with no tigers." Oddball
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Gangrene
Federated Suns
Leftenant General
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 939
Location: United States
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| Posted: 27-Jan-2003 18:00 Post subject: RE: ditching the heat scale |
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I was kind of hoping to go the other direction, as in make the game less complicated. Battletech is a good game, but it is not exactly that popular and I still have doubts about its immediate future. What I was trying to get at is that a few rules could be cut out and a simplified game released thats more attractive to the mass market. I don't think putting more emphasis on the heat scale would accomplish that, and I do think elimination of the heat scale would be a good start.
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Gangrene
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Karagin
Imperial Karagin Army
Imperial General
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 4120
Location: United States
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| Posted: 27-Jan-2003 18:01 Post subject: RE: ditching the heat scale |
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Removing the heat scale makes it Robotech with mechs and no roleplaying.
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Karagin
Only the dead have seen the end of war. - Plato
"Wasted trip Man. Nobody said nuthin' about lockin' horns with no tigers." Oddball
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Gangrene
Federated Suns
Leftenant General
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 939
Location: United States
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| Posted: 27-Jan-2003 18:04 Post subject: RE: ditching the heat scale |
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I hate the heat scale...as it does slow gameplay down.
And in some of the games you've played in, your opponents have completely forgot about it for maybe, er . . . a couple of turns. But that's okay, you still won.
What I ws trying to get at is that a simplified version of the game could be released that might be better accepted by younger gamers. I don't think the heat scale should be kicked out of L2 play, unless most people don't like it.
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Gangrene
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Gangrene
Federated Suns
Leftenant General
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 939
Location: United States
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| Posted: 27-Jan-2003 18:06 Post subject: RE: ditching the heat scale |
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I don't think the heat thats the only difference between the two. I didn't choose Btech over Rtech because it had a heat scale.
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Gangrene
[ This Message was edited by: Gangrene on 2003-01-27 18:07 ]
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Gangrene
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Talen
Capellan Confederation
Sang-shao
Joined: 05-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 1269
Location: United States
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| Posted: 27-Jan-2003 18:14 Post subject: RE: ditching the heat scale |
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Quote:
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And in some of the games you've played in, your opponents have completely forgot about it for maybe, er . . . a couple of turns. But that's okay, you still won.
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Heehee...the only 'mechs I ever lose track of heat are ones that it doesnt matter...except in that one case...
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"Historians exercise great power and some of them know it. They recreate the past, changing it to fit their own interpretations. Thus, they change the future as well." - Leto II
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Karagin
Imperial Karagin Army
Imperial General
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 4120
Location: United States
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| Posted: 27-Jan-2003 18:17 Post subject: RE: ditching the heat scale |
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The heat scale adds the idea in that the mechs aren't perfect thus they have draw backs etc...removing it means vehicles lose out since one of their big things was lack of heat for all but engery weapons. And there is a sci-fi game with no heat for the massive weapons and super cool tanks it's called Renegade Legion.
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Karagin
Only the dead have seen the end of war. - Plato
"Wasted trip Man. Nobody said nuthin' about lockin' horns with no tigers." Oddball
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Nightmare
Lyran Alliance
Kommandant-General
Joined: 03-May-2002 00:00
Posts: 2214
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| Posted: 28-Jan-2003 00:15 Post subject: RE: ditching the heat scale |
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Well, you might do it like me and my friends when we first tried BattleTech with an old Finnish 2nd edition box. There was a slight misunderstanding when we read about how a round is resolved...
Move your mechs, fire weapons, do physical attacks, total up heat. Then roll for heat effects, and last - - - subtract number of heat sinks from heat!
It worked with the old machines, they just couldn`t manage to drag up enough heat to go over the scale in one round. The new munch mechs would auto-shutdown every single round 
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