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Storm
Draconis Combine
Chu-i
Joined: 06-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 278
Location: United States
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 Posted: 20-Nov-2003 11:48 Post subject: Machine Guns: Beating a Dead Horse |
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I've always wondered (and because it affects weapon design at times too), when the term "Machine Gun" is used, exactly what type of MG are we referring to?
Is it:
M-60 style, belt fed
Browning .50 cal, like that mounted on a modern tank?
or
Something along the lines of a Vulcan Minigun?
This is kind of important as it affects a weapon I'm designing.
Storm
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Storm  "The More that thou sweatest and swearest in training, the less thou bleedest and diest in combat."--Dick Marcinko
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Ruger
Lyran Alliance
Hauptmann General
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
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| Posted: 20-Nov-2003 12:16 Post subject: RE: Machine Guns: Beating a Dead Horse |
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Well...it depends...are you talking light (SAW), portable (M-60, BAR), semi-portable (XM312 or maybe M2HB), or Support (M2HB (maybe), high caliber (.50 cal and up in all likelihood) miniguns) or semi-portable ACs (very high caliber, high RoF miniguns)?
'Mech scale MGs are semi-portable MGs (equivalent to 'Mech scale light machine guns), support MGs ('Mech scale machine guns), and semi-portable ACs ('Mech scale heavy machine guns)...
At least that is my view on things...
LosTech, the BattleTech Companion and the Combat Ops (IIRC) books would all help with this...the first one list the various guns, the second has rules for BA construction (and crossreferences infantry support weapons with 'Mech scale weapons) and the latter has infantry construction rules...
BTW, LosTech will be getting a sort of revision in the upcoming Combat Equipment manual...if you know of anything left out that was found in various older sourcebooks, come over to the Classic BattleTech message boards and let us know about it in the Fan Input board under that thread...
Ruger
[ This Message was edited by: Ruger on 2003-11-20 12:21 ]
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Sir Henry
Team Bansai
Senior Tech Specialist
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| Posted: 20-Nov-2003 13:41 Post subject: RE: Machine Guns: Beating a Dead Horse |
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I always figured them as 50's..
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Storm
Draconis Combine
Chu-i
Joined: 06-Feb-2002 00:00
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Location: United States
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| Posted: 20-Nov-2003 14:48 Post subject: RE: Machine Guns: Beating a Dead Horse |
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Me too. I can't see putting anything smaller on any vehicle, except maybe a motorcycle.
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Storm "The More that thou sweatest and swearest in training, the less thou bleedest and diest in combat."--Dick Marcinko
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Storm
Draconis Combine
Chu-i
Joined: 06-Feb-2002 00:00
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Location: United States
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| Posted: 20-Nov-2003 14:51 Post subject: RE: Machine Guns: Beating a Dead Horse |
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I always figured them to be 50s, like Sir Henry said. But I'll go with the printed rules.
Reason is: I'm working on a design for a minigun, something that does more damage than the standard MG, chews through ammo with a high rate of fire, and is smaller/lighter than an AC.
BTW, can you authorize me for ICQ?
Storm
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Vampire
Free Worlds League
Lieutenant Colonel
Joined: 05-Feb-2002 00:00
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Location: Spain
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Storm
Draconis Combine
Chu-i
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Location: United States
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| Posted: 20-Nov-2003 17:54 Post subject: RE: Machine Guns: Beating a Dead Horse |
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Hmmmm. I was hoping more like .50s. I wanted to design a gatling like the 30mm in the A-10, then stick a couple of them on an assault mech as in-close surprises.
Storm
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Storm "The More that thou sweatest and swearest in training, the less thou bleedest and diest in combat."--Dick Marcinko
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Gangrene
Federated Suns
Leftenant General
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
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| Posted: 20-Nov-2003 22:01 Post subject: RE: Machine Guns: Beating a Dead Horse |
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I vote for the .50 cal as the standard Battletech machinegun. The main reason is that the same machinegun mounted on a Bmech is supposedly also carried on the arm of a battlesuit. I don't see the Vulcan as being a logical candidate for this and the M60 is just too wimpy. Plus this keeps with Battletechs pattern of over-powering small weapons and underpowering big ones.
Note that I am not saying the .50 cal is the most realistic, just the best at matching Btechs patterns.
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Motown Scrapper
Clan Ice Hellions
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| Posted: 20-Nov-2003 22:13 Post subject: RE: Machine Guns: Beating a Dead Horse |
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Most of the fluff I have seen concerning MGs that have mentioned calibre put it at 20mm
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Storm
Draconis Combine
Chu-i
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| Posted: 21-Nov-2003 10:12 Post subject: RE: Machine Guns: Beating a Dead Horse |
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Well, coming to you with talent on loan from God, I seem to recall that 20mm is about .50 cal, but I could be wrong.
The minigun I'm designing would be more the A-10's 30mm gatling.
Storm
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Storm "The More that thou sweatest and swearest in training, the less thou bleedest and diest in combat."--Dick Marcinko
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Paul
Capellan Confederation
Sang-wei
Joined: 25-Feb-2002 00:00
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| Posted: 21-Nov-2003 10:41 Post subject: RE: Machine Guns: Beating a Dead Horse |
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Quote:
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On 2003-11-20 11:48, Storm wrote:
Is it:
M-60 style, belt fed
Browning .50 cal, like that mounted on a modern tank?
or
Something along the lines of a Vulcan Minigun?
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Fluff wise, they're typically described as either miniguns or .50 cal type weaponry.
(IIRC, the PXH is explicitely stated to have .50 cal guns)
M-60 type weaponry would be what infantry's carrying around.
Paul
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Ruger
Lyran Alliance
Hauptmann General
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| Posted: 21-Nov-2003 13:03 Post subject: RE: Machine Guns: Beating a Dead Horse |
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Quote:
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On 2003-11-21 10:12, Storm wrote:
I seem to recall that 20mm is about .50 cal, but I could be wrong.
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a half inch is 12.7mm...a 20mm round is therefore FAR bigger...
Much less a 30mm round... 
Ruger
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MEX
Clan Blood Spirit
Star Colonel
Joined: 21-Mar-2002 00:00
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Location: Austria
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| Posted: 21-Nov-2003 16:05 Post subject: RE: Machine Guns: Beating a Dead Horse |
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Too bad that the GAUSS MACHINE GUN isn't level 2 
The biggest drawback of MG's in CBT is the huge amount of damage when the critical slot of the ammo is hit
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-Mud
ex-Jade Falcon
Bounty Hunter
Joined: 04-Nov-2003 00:00
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| Posted: 21-Nov-2003 16:20 Post subject: RE: Machine Guns: Beating a Dead Horse |
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| According to 3026, a Support Machine Gun is the equivalent of a 'Mech M.G. The picture they give looks a lot like a Browning .50 cal., which is believable, as a .50 cal. can deal out significant damage to unarmored or lightly armored vehicles. I think the autocannon class of gun is closer to the Vulcan cannon.
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-Mud
ex-Jade Falcon
Bounty Hunter
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| Posted: 21-Nov-2003 16:23 Post subject: RE: Machine Guns: Beating a Dead Horse |
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| here's a novel solution; just carry a lot less ammo.
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