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Mordel
Mordel.Net
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 Posted: 11-Feb-2004 22:52 Post subject: User Review: Spider SDR-5V |
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On 2004-01-26, Old Dog wrote:
Bland but effective, the classic Spider suffers from the odd CT placement of the weapons, but has unmatched speed and agility. Phenominal scout and harassment mech, but way, way expensive. Better for House units than mercenaries.
The lack of an ejection system is a problem that gets serious when you realize how little armor the pider really has. While there's no Mech it can't get away from, the Spider suffers from pilot turnover, which is BAD for a scout.
In a campaign, the Spider's going to be left out of a lot of missions, as it's too valuable to risk. The gyro alone's worth more than some mechs!
-- Old Dog
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I thought I'd start the discussion thread with this review if only to make a statement. The weapons are placed in the CT, I feel, for further durability of the 'mech. No, it doesn't have a lot of armor. But more than half the time I use this thing I am still alive with no torsos or arms save the CT. That is why the weapons are there. The designers know the side torsos and arms are there only for damage soak. It's very effectively and EXTREMELY wise to put them there.
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Old Dog
Capellan Confederation
Sang-wei
Joined: 24-May-2002 00:00
Posts: 299
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| Posted: 12-Feb-2004 00:54 Post subject: RE: User Review: Spider SDR-5V |
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Well-protected, yes, but unable to aim well. Not just in the sense that they don't have an arm-mounted weapon's fire arc, but from a Roleplaying sense as well. If your mech has a rifle, for example, you know how to fire it pretty intuitively. If it has lasers on teh back of each arm (Ala the P.Hawk), you pretty much can figure out to fire it like a superhero.
But chest mounted weapons, especially lasers, are difficult animals. Let's say you had a button-up shirt, and ran a garden hose up through it, to hang out, then turned the water on. How accurate do you think you're going to be like this? In contrast, hold teh hose in yoru hand, and see how well you can aim.
Now imagine trying the same thing, only with weapons that can shoot nearly a third of a klick, while bouncing around like a flea on Crack.
From that viewpoint, you can see why I feel that the placement's a problem?
Game-wise? Makes sense.
Role-playing wise? Tis a silly thing. 
Mind you, that's just *my* view. I've been wrong before and I'll be wrong again. No biggie.
-- Old Dog, mechanized mongrel
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Mordel
Mordel.Net
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| Posted: 12-Feb-2004 06:59 Post subject: RE: User Review: Spider SDR-5V |
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Ok, from the viewpoint you mentioned, sure, it isn't a great placement. From a game mechanics though, it's perfect. Since in game mechanics it doesn't matter where the weapon is, it's all the same to-hit. And if you need to use the side firing arcs or, heave-forbid, the rear; then you aren't piloting the Spider properly.
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Old Dog
Capellan Confederation
Sang-wei
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| Posted: 12-Feb-2004 13:04 Post subject: RE: User Review: Spider SDR-5V |
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Hey, okay, so we're in agreement then.
Yayy!
-- Old Dog, balanced bowser
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ralgith
Blighted Sun Battalion
1st Company
"Ralgith's Renegades"
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| Posted: 18-Feb-2004 13:55 Post subject: RE: User Review: Spider SDR-5V |
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I've just gotta drop my 2 pennies into this.
The reason there is the same to-hit for weapons no matter mount location is because the weapons aren''t aimed by body shifting, they are in what I call mini-turrets allowing them to have some movement in any direction. Think the straw sticking out of a slurpy, moving it around by the hole in the lid is a fixed point and you can't move it far. Also in one of the sourcebooks (don't remeber which) it says all weapons have built in stabilizers which act like mini-gyros. That is what makes them easy to aim comparatively. Of course, if your computer targeting goes offline...this is all moot....but your probably dead anyways
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Colonel Ralgith t'Mayasara
Blighted Sun Battalion
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-Mud
ex-Jade Falcon
Bounty Hunter
Joined: 04-Nov-2003 00:00
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| Posted: 18-Feb-2004 14:41 Post subject: RE: User Review: Spider SDR-5V |
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| Why couldn't the 'mech's computer compensate for the awkward placement; also, Mechwarriors are throughly trained; I am sure they would be trained to use weapons mounted on parts of the body no human could use.
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ralgith
Blighted Sun Battalion
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"Ralgith's Renegades"
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| Posted: 18-Feb-2004 20:26 Post subject: RE: User Review: Spider SDR-5V |
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Mud, no offence, but learn to read, I said that basically, what did you think? That the mini-turret was moved by the pillot? If that was true why would the computer targeting being out make it harder to aim? See the computer does control it, following the taget reticule on the hud, and that's moved by the pilot, but TRANSLATED by the computer to talk to the guns...all the guns.
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Colonel Ralgith t'Mayasara
Blighted Sun Battalion
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-Mud
ex-Jade Falcon
Bounty Hunter
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| Posted: 18-Feb-2004 20:35 Post subject: RE: User Review: Spider SDR-5V |
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Actually, that was only half of my argument; Old Dog has this unnatural fixation on arm-mounted weapons. If you read his reviews, he's always ranting about it...maybe he's got rabies 
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Old Dog
Capellan Confederation
Sang-wei
Joined: 24-May-2002 00:00
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| Posted: 19-Feb-2004 03:29 Post subject: RE: User Review: Spider SDR-5V |
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Bawr rar rar! Bwar rar! *slobber slobber*
Errr..
Ahem.
Sorry, hiccups.
*ahem*.
Well, note that teh rockets that corkscrew out of mechs are basicly unguided, and that many a Mech used to run on 'Iron Sights', with no targeting computer or the like. This made teh rifle-style weapon *very* popular.
Chest lasers tend to be kind of vague 'Over that-a-way weapons, where you fire a few times to get tracking, then start actually connecting.
Sure, the rules don't say anything about it, but, I have a cinema in my head, and it knows the truth.
-- Old Dog, has her shots!
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Vampire
Free Worlds League
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Joined: 05-Feb-2002 00:00
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Location: Spain
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| Posted: 19-Feb-2004 05:12 Post subject: RE: User Review: Spider SDR-5V |
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Old Dog, next time I hear you talk about "corkscrewing" missiles, I'm going to whap you with a rolled paper... with an iron bar inside 
Missiles work that way on cinema, but not in reality, even unguided rockets travel in straight lines. Have you ever seen an arrow corckscrewing?
About the arm mounted weaponry... it gives better arcs of fire and a very fast traverse, wich is an advantage, but remember the aiming is done by gunsights over the pilot targetting screen, not by aiming the arm mounted weapon like a rifle.
So aiming torso mounted weapons it's not that difficult, it's the same case as the guns on an aircraft, you aim them by aiming with the whole plane, not just the gunsights. You use 'Mech movement to get the guns aimed in the general direction of the target, and then use the guns own traverse and elevation for fine adjustment moving the reticle gunsight around in the screen.
With a fast, nimble 'Mech like the Spider you don't need much footwork with the steering pedals to aim right.
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Sir Henry
Team Bansai
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| Posted: 19-Feb-2004 06:35 Post subject: RE: User Review: Spider SDR-5V |
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Missles wobble, not corkscrew.
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Sir Henry
A Dragon in the disguise of a bunny, is still a Dragon.
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ralgith
Blighted Sun Battalion
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| Posted: 19-Feb-2004 12:46 Post subject: RE: User Review: Spider SDR-5V |
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Quote:
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On 2004-02-18 20:35, -Mud wrote:
Actually, that was only half of my argument; Old Dog has this unnatural fixation on arm-mounted weapons. If you read his reviews, he's always ranting about it...maybe he's got rabies
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Old Dog must have been born a Clanner then,. They also have an unnatural fixation with arm weapons. As for the rabies, that would explain the doggie slobber on my monitor every time I read one of his posts...ICK, white foamy stuff.
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Colonel Ralgith t'Mayasara
Blighted Sun Battalion
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Oafman
Draconis Combine
Tai-sho
Joined: 18-Nov-2003 00:00
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Location: United States
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| Posted: 19-Feb-2004 13:17 Post subject: RE: User Review: Spider SDR-5V |
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They do corkscrew, but only if one of their little fins at the back is missing. But for the most part, they just fly straight with a wobble like Henry just said.
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Raven!
Clan Snow Raven
Galaxy Commander
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| Posted: 19-Feb-2004 15:26 Post subject: RE: User Review: Spider SDR-5V |
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Vampire has got this one right Old Dog. The problem of mounting your weapons on the arms is that the arms aren't that stable.. they aren't you arms! So first off your commands are going to lag. In other words, you're pointing the arm at some target, and it is a second or two behind. If the arm gets hit you're targeting would be even worse.
Because of the armor and protection offered by the torso, not to mention the increased stability (more weight to hold the torso still if it gets hit), more weapons would be mounted in the torso. Center torso if their was room. Because their isn't room, the side torso is the best option for weapon placement.
Now Anime speaking the weapons on the arms makes more sense, and i'm sure thats the cinema thats playing 
Raven
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ralgith
Blighted Sun Battalion
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| Posted: 19-Feb-2004 16:11 Post subject: RE: User Review: Spider SDR-5V |
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Nice speech Raven, I like the Anime thing, too much Gundam shows for me  But even on Gundam, look at the Heavy Arms machine, mostly torso weapons.
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Colonel Ralgith t'Mayasara
Blighted Sun Battalion
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