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Alexander
Heavy Horse Merc Brigade
Commanding Officer
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 828
Location: Canada
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 Posted: 01-Sep-2002 14:57 Post subject: 120mm Tank Cannon idea |
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Well, I'm not really going to design a weapon system right now, but, more, I'm just trying to bounce ideas off you guys. I've always had a little trouble with the projectile weapons of BTech, versus the way weapons like this work in real life.
Take the Gauss for an example. A projectile like that should penetrate the armour of a 'Mech right off, (unless it is VERY thick!).
The way real cannons and tank guns work is different from BTech. We'll take a HESH (High explosive squash Head) round as an example. When a HESH round hits it's target, the squash head spreads out over a small area of the target armour and explodes. The explosion doesn't necessarily breech the armour, and it doesn't destroy large chunks of it either, instead, it shakes the armour causing small fragments (called spall) to be broken off on the other side of the armour plate. In a tank the spall would bounce around inside the vehicle chewing up equipment and the crew.
A HEAT (High explosive Anti-Tank) round is fairly similar. When the warhead hits the armour it punches the nose of the round in just enough to detonate an explosive charge inside the projectile which shoots a molten jet of armour insode the tank, doing the same effects as the spall caused by a HESH round.
Kinetic Energy rounds such as the APFSDS (Armour-piercing Fin stabilized Discarding Sabot) round basically uses the speed of the projectile to punch it's way through the armour, causing effects known as plugging, plastic, discing, or spall (all of them basically lead to the destruction of the inside of the tank). A BTech example of a KE round would be the Gauss, which uses hte speed of the round to defeat the armour.
In all of these examples, there is minimal effects to the outside armour of the vehicle, with all the damage done being mostly internal.
So, my proposal is this:
120mm gun L23A1
weight: 15tons
crits: 7
Heat: 1
Range: round dependant
Damage: round dependant
Cost: 350 000 unloaded
Chemical Energy Rounds:
10/ ton
Range:
Short:1-9, Medium: 10-18, Long: 19-27
Damage:
Short Range: Armour-2, Chance of Crit: roll of 2-6 on 2d6.
Medium Range: Armour-2, Chance of Crit: roll of 2-5 on 2d6.
Long range: Armour-2, Chance of Crit: roll of 2-4 on 2d6.
Cost: 30 000
---
Kinetic Energy Rounds:
10/ton
Range:
Short:1-7, Medium: 8-14, Long: 15-22
Damage:
Short Range: Armour-1, Chance of Crit: roll of 2-7 on 2d6.
Medium Range: Armour-1, Chance of Crit: roll of 2-6 on 2d6.
Long Range: Armour-1, Chance of Crit: roll of 2-5 on 2d6.
Cost:40 000
Alexander (Let the critique begin!)
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War is God's way of teaching geography.
*******
Commanding Officer, North West Armoured Cavalry
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Vagabond
Mercenary
Mr. Referee
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 5797
Location: United States
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| Posted: 01-Sep-2002 15:35 Post subject: RE: 120mm Tank Cannon idea |
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hmmmmmm, the ancient argument of crits before internal damage.....
the idea seems to have merat, but would unbalance the OUTDATED battletech playing system.
if using FASA Physics one would assume that a] the spalling is accounted for in vehicles by there unique hit table, and b] that the mechs very design and composition of materials reduces the spalling to near negligable effect.
over all its my OPINION that a] this wont work in BT, and b] that BT needs to come out of the dark ages of gaming systems and design an all new combat system that intergrates vehicles, mechs, aeroforces, artillery, and has an ability to grow and advance as the universe does.
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one must work hard to cultivate the mind and body. and one must always cultivate the mind.
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Raven!
Clan Snow Raven
Galaxy Commander
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 1326
Location: United States
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| Posted: 01-Sep-2002 20:41 Post subject: RE: 120mm Tank Cannon idea |
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Which is where my game comes in! I'll have a relaase or something in the future. Right now though my cash has to go to my State Rep campaign.
Raven!
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Vagabond
Mercenary
Mr. Referee
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 5797
Location: United States
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| Posted: 19-Jun-2004 02:50 Post subject: RE: 120mm Tank Cannon idea |
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this worthy post did not get enough attention when it was posted. i want to hear the new guys opinions on it.
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one must work hard to cultivate the mind and body. and one must always cultivate the mind.
//^(^_^)^\\
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Gangrene
Federated Suns
Leftenant General
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 939
Location: United States
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| Posted: 19-Jun-2004 12:33 Post subject: RE: 120mm Tank Cannon idea |
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Its not bad. The main issue (not really a problem) is that you are reinventing the wheel, so to speak, in how you determine if a critical hit occurs. I don't recall any place else in the Btech rules where a less-than-or-equal-to scheme is used. For a simple penetration rules set I would use rules similar to those for AP autocannon rounds, thus keeping the greater-than-or-equal-to scheme Btech players are familiar with. For example:
KE rounds: damage=1, crit on 7+
Shaped Charge round: damage=2, crit on 8+
HESH: damage=3, crit on 9+
[ This Message was edited by: Gangrene on 2004-06-19 12:36 ]
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Gangrene
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Stinger
The Knights of Chaos
General
Joined: 30-Apr-2002 00:00
Posts: 1833
Location: United States
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| Posted: 19-Jun-2004 20:10 Post subject: RE: 120mm Tank Cannon idea |
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Well somethign like this would require all of B-tech to be rework (somethign that it may need anyway) to make it work.
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Stinger
If it's "creepy" to use the Internet, military satellites, and robot aircraft to find a house full of gorgeous young models so I can drop in on them unexpected, then FINE, I'm "creepy". Howard Wolowitz. BBT.
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Wanallo
Federated Suns
Leftenant Colonel
Joined: 02-Jan-2004 00:00
Posts: 671
Location: United Kingdom
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| Posted: 20-Jun-2004 16:55 Post subject: RE: 120mm Tank Cannon idea |
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The problem is, to reinvent battletech would just cause more trouble than its worth. Look at Dark Age, how many people like that? If the rules were completely changed then many people would not be happy. Most people don't like change.
In my opinion i would like a overhaul of the rules. But there will always be those people who moan,
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Constant exposure to dangers will breed contempt for them-Seneca
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Motown Scrapper
Clan Ice Hellions
Galaxy Commander
Joined: 24-Jul-2003 00:00
Posts: 2074
Location: United States
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| Posted: 20-Jun-2004 20:36 Post subject: RE: 120mm Tank Cannon idea |
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This brings to mind the recent food fight over on HMP when it was decided to try to tweak the old Lam rules into something that might be accpted by TPTB Four locked threads and dozens of deleted posts later people finaly gave up. 
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Having more fun than a human being should be allowed to have-Rush Limbaugh www.rushlimbaugh.com
Force of nature
Still crazy after all these years
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Steel-Scorpion
Steel Scorpion Mercs.
Mercenary General
Joined: 17-Nov-2003 00:00
Posts: 217
Location: United States
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| Posted: 21-Jun-2004 00:43 Post subject: 120mm Cannon, Hmmmm |
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re-invent the wheel, sell ice to Escimo's, and pull the whool over your own eyes. the Game allready has these weapons... they are called AUTOCANNONS.
Quote:
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An autocannon is a rapid-firing, auto-loading weapon that fires streams of High-explosive, armor piercing shells. Light autocannon range from 30mm to 90mm, and heavy autocannon may be 80mm to 120mm or larger.
autocannon are also available in advanced LB-X (p.118) and Ultra (p.122) versions.
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AC-2 = 30mm
AC-5 = 90mm
AC-10 = 80mm
AC-20 = 120mm
as it is Described, AUTOCANNONS fire a Single Shell, and re-load. The Sizes of these shells are found on page 114 of the BattleTech Compendium: Rules of Warfare
FASA book 1690
ISBN#: 1-55560-247-9
Retail value $20.00
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"A 'Mech as powerful as possible, as impenetrable as possible, and as ugly and foreboding as conceivable, so that fear itself will be our ally."Aleksandr Kerensky — On the Atlas
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