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-Mud
ex-Jade Falcon
Bounty Hunter
Joined: 04-Nov-2003 00:00
Posts: 1082
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 Posted: 16-Aug-2004 18:46 Post subject: Marauder armor |
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So because of the Marauder's odd shape, and the specialized armor used on the 'mech, should replacement armor for it salvaged from other 'mech designs be less effective? Maybe it would only provide 10 or 12 points of protection per ton, because of the gaps and weak points which it could not cover.
Just something to think about. I've played too many games where salvage was used a bit too freely, without too much thought to the difficulty of retro-fitting very specialized parts to extremely complex machines they were not designed to fit into.
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Blackhand
Draconis Combine
Chu-i
Joined: 05-Jul-2002 00:00
Posts: 334
Location: Canada
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| Posted: 16-Aug-2004 19:10 Post subject: RE: Marauder armor |
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| I'm a bit mean about that in games I'm in. Usually I make you add 1-2 hours of tech time per ton of armour replaced. Which can get pretty annoying depending on which side of the coin your stuck on.
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Seraph
Blighted Sun Battalion
2nd Company
"Seraph's Slaughter"
Major
Joined: 11-Mar-2004 00:00
Posts: 1744
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| Posted: 16-Aug-2004 19:23 Post subject: RE: Marauder armor |
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Armor is armor. Except for the differences in ferrofibrous and regular. If you have a hole in your mech and want to patch it you take some armor, cut it to fit the hole and weld it in place. If you are using salvaged armor that can't match your hole then you just take a few different pieces and weld them together and then cut it to fit and weld it in place. That's about it. Other than that you just have to shape it to fit over odd areas. And that's just a little bit a metal fab if you know what you're doing.
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If ignorance is bliss, then why are you so miserable?
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DarkAdder
Clan Star Adder
Star Commander
Joined: 10-Jan-2004 00:00
Posts: 604
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| Posted: 16-Aug-2004 19:28 Post subject: RE: Marauder armor |
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The armor is pretty much the same across the board. Some mechs have 's\pecialized' armor because if its shape, but theres not much difference. If youre going to take slabmech armor and use it to patch curvedmech, your techies might have to take another half hour or hour (depending on how much is being replaced) and recut and reweld it to fit.
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Seraph
Blighted Sun Battalion
2nd Company
"Seraph's Slaughter"
Major
Joined: 11-Mar-2004 00:00
Posts: 1744
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| Posted: 16-Aug-2004 19:30 Post subject: RE: Marauder armor |
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True and if your mech had a curved surface prior to damage then it may have an angular surface for awhile until more time could be spent doing a proper job of it. Deends on tools and materials at hand when the repairs were made.
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If ignorance is bliss, then why are you so miserable?
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Vagabond
Mercenary
Mr. Referee
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 5788
Location: United States
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| Posted: 17-Aug-2004 01:04 Post subject: % |
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there are two answers to this question.
1] the developers purposely left this aspect of undefined and as broad as possible in order to speed game play. standard armor is standard armor no matter if it comes from mech a, b, or c, and the same goes for ferro-fiberous. it is quick and dirty. purposely left simple.
2] you can go beyond the established rules and begin to sub classify your componets by maker and type as described in the TRO info. then add rules for the use of cross type componets:
ex1: the LCT-1V uses 1/Starslab. in order to use 2/Starslab your techs increase there time by 50%. so if it takes 30 min per point, it now takes 45 min.
ex2: the LCT-1V uses 1/Starslab. in order to use Aldis Heavy instead of 1/Starslab your tech need more time [50%] and a +1 to there tech rolls.
so my suggestion is this:
Same maker different type: +50% time.
Different maker: +50% time and +1 tech roll.
Doing this would make actuators a pain and ammo. Each actuator would be different for each mech. at the moment, we worry only about weight yet with sub classification actuator types would be sub classed to each mech chassie.
my suggestion:
Same weight different mech: +50% time and +1 tech roll.
Ammo is another problem in that thou a class 10 is a class 10, a class 10 in liao space could be 100mm with a davion cannon being 120mm. even cannons in each house could be different sizes with one being 120mm and another 110mm. so if you sub classed componets only cannons of the same caliber [XXXmm] could be used with each other.
my suggestion:
same caliber different maker: roll a tech roll as per ammo reloading with a +1 tech roll. this roll is the difficulty and time it takes to modify and prepare the rounds for use.
Missiles i would leave be.
Heat Sinks may possibly be a concern too as each house may imploy a different mixture for there coolant that requires modifing the sink to except it.
my suggestion [optional]:
different house heat sink: +50% to recalibrate.
computers, sensors, and electronics all present a huge problem. say your Stinger gets its cockpit crit'd. your now facing a problem:
1] do you have a spare Stinger cockpit.
2] is the software and computer hardware compatable.
Cockpits are one of those componets that, imho, cannot be substituted by another cockpit from a mech in the same weight class. in addition, all the houses have, use, and learn different languages and software packages. so even if you found a liao stinger cockpit to replace your davion stinger cockpit i hope your pilot can read cantonise or your tech boys have a extra copy of Holoscreen 3025 XP Professional from Microspit on hand.
my suggestion:
cockpit not from same chassie: no replacement possible.
cockpit from same chassie but different house: +50% time to reprogram OS.
thats about it for me atm, yet i am sure you can see were i was going with this.
enjoy.
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one must work hard to cultivate the mind and body. and one must always cultivate the mind.
//^(^_^)^\\
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Erenon
Blighted Sun Battalion
2nd Company
"Seraph's Slaughter"
Sergeant
Joined: 04-Jun-2004 00:00
Posts: 976
Location: Singapore
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| Posted: 17-Aug-2004 03:06 Post subject: RE: % |
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It means a major pain in the arse for book-keeping... Merc commander will also be screaming all the way down to the nine hells.. (or more..)
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"My job is to keep the majority of people in this country alive. That's it. If fifty-one percent eat a meal tomorrow and forty-nine percent don't, I've done my job." - The Beast (AKA The President), Transmetropolitan
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Nightmare
Lyran Alliance
Kommandant-General
Joined: 03-May-2002 00:00
Posts: 2214
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| Posted: 17-Aug-2004 05:12 Post subject: RE: Marauder armor |
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The fluff is just that, fluff. Valiant Lamellor armor is said to be special, but it's still just standard armor.
On the other hand... A Star League era Marauder with FF armor would be a reasonable variant. You get to beef up the legs and side torsos a bit without having to go psycho on the upgrades.
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Vampire
Free Worlds League
Lieutenant Colonel
Joined: 05-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 915
Location: Spain
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| Posted: 17-Aug-2004 07:05 Post subject: RE: Marauder armor |
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That' is my take, the Valiant Lamellor was just Ferro Fibrous armor, in my revised readout when adjusting the Marauder to a personalized template, I found out the math adds up if you use FF armor. The fluff says that the Marauder was such a valuable 'Mech that stores of FF armor were allocated to this 'Mech to the exclusion of all others, to keep them at peak efficiency. Of course, by the 3020s, the lostech armor is becoming scarce and most Marauders have patchwork armor, or have switched to standard armor.
Unlike other designs that became extinct because they couldn't survive once their advanced tech spares became unavailable, (the Guillotine comes to mind) the Marauder can get by with standard armor, it losses a ton of so of protection, but can live with that.
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-Mud
ex-Jade Falcon
Bounty Hunter
Joined: 04-Nov-2003 00:00
Posts: 1082
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| Posted: 17-Aug-2004 10:58 Post subject: RE: Marauder armor |
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The shape of the Marauder's carapice would reduce the effect of unproperly shaped armor plate however. That's why the ammunition linkage and torso-leg interface are vulnerable to enemy fire.
I tend to think replacing armor would probably be a little more difficult without the necessary parts, and the final result would necessarily be less than optimal.
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jfox61
Clan Ghost Bear
Point Commander
Joined: 05-Aug-2004 00:00
Posts: 46
Location: United Kingdom
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| Posted: 17-Aug-2004 18:24 Post subject: RE: Marauder armor |
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One other point which may be worth considering is the defensive capabilities of the replacement armour. Unless you replace the whole section of damaged armour any replacement armour welded to the original would be inherently weaker because of the weld line. so surely any hits on this area would increase the percentage of scoring a critical in this area and possibly blowing the whole section apart.
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Erenon
Blighted Sun Battalion
2nd Company
"Seraph's Slaughter"
Sergeant
Joined: 04-Jun-2004 00:00
Posts: 976
Location: Singapore
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| Posted: 17-Aug-2004 20:39 Post subject: RE: Marauder armor |
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I think that going into TOO much detail might bog down the game.. going with the house rules suggested by Vagabond might be a workable option.
I don't think turning Battletech into MERP is worth the detail 
_________________
"My job is to keep the majority of people in this country alive. That's it. If fifty-one percent eat a meal tomorrow and forty-nine percent don't, I've done my job." - The Beast (AKA The President), Transmetropolitan
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Seraph
Blighted Sun Battalion
2nd Company
"Seraph's Slaughter"
Major
Joined: 11-Mar-2004 00:00
Posts: 1744
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| Posted: 18-Aug-2004 05:02 Post subject: RE: Marauder armor |
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Actually the weld is going to be stronger than the material that was welded. And if you give yourself a 6" overlap it will cut down on any shearing effects caused but explosions and impacts.
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If ignorance is bliss, then why are you so miserable?
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Kiris65
Draconis Combine
Tai-i
Joined: 17-Dec-2003 00:00
Posts: 371
Location: Panama
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| Posted: 18-Aug-2004 08:07 Post subject: RE: Marauder armor |
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This is not in anyway related to Stealth Armor, is it?
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Oafman
Draconis Combine
Tai-sho
Joined: 18-Nov-2003 00:00
Posts: 1657
Location: United States
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| Posted: 18-Aug-2004 09:48 Post subject: RE: Marauder armor |
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(listen to Seraph, he is a welder in real life)
I have actually tested this in the welding class I took in college. Even my mediocre welds held up. In a stretch test the metal broke and the weld did not even look like it was affected. The only time the welds would be questionable would be if you have green tech in your mech group, or if the mechwarrior is doing the welding. Still too much work to keep track of though.
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