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mud
Draconis Combine
Tai-sho
Joined: 23-Jul-2002 00:00
Posts: 1618
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 Posted: 22-Jan-2005 13:33 Post subject: Which House came out of the '50s with the best position? |
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How do you think the various houses faired in the '50s?
Personally, I think Kurita did the best. They were the only faction invaded by the clans to successfully regain most of the territory they had lost, and on top of this, their already formidable military emerged from the struggle as the best in the Inner Sphere.
Liao also did well for themselves, regaining most of the territory they had lost to Hanse, and also coming out with a renewed sense of optimism, particularly after reabsorbing St. Ives. Marik arguably did even better, managing to overtake House Steiner economically, but they were also saddled with the WOB fanatics, which has disturbing consequences for the future of House Marik and the Free Worlds League.
The Federated Commonwealth was ultimately the biggest loser. Davion lost their 4th Succession War gains and became embroiled in an ugly civil war. House Steiner lost significant chunks of territory to the Falcons and to the ARDC, as well as their economic preeminence. They also face a reinvigorated Draconis Combine and Free Worlds League, should general war ever again break out in the Inner Sphere.
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Wanallo
Federated Suns
Leftenant Colonel
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Location: United Kingdom
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| Posted: 22-Jan-2005 15:28 Post subject: RE: Which House came out of the '50s with the best position? |
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I have got to say Liao, they were completely uneffected by the clans, they gained the new tech and Sun Tzu (i think) became leader of the new star league.
I also think they took back the St Ives compact quite soon didn't they? Set themselves up nicely to take advantage of the Fedcom war
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StarRaven
Federated Suns
Leftenant General
Joined: 01-Jun-2004 00:00
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Location: United States
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| Posted: 22-Jan-2005 16:38 Post subject: RE: Which House came out of the '50s with the best position? |
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The Dracs did best, with the gains of Operation Bulldog and not losing anything anywhere else. They've still got the Ghost Bears, but that's just another border; it's not much longer than the old Lyran border was. They (the GBs) are also not sitting on large chunks of Combine like the Smoked Jags were; just a few little pieces. The Nova Cats are a big source of internal dissent, but not a threat in and of themselves.
Liao gained quite a lot, but much of what they lost in the 4th War is still tied up in the Chaos March. They'll have to fight to get that back. The retaking of the St. Ives Compact is firmly in the 3060s, and so doesn't count here. Don't forget that WOB is running Liao's HPGs too. That won't help them in the long run.
The FedCom got screwed vigorously. Lost Hanse, lost Melissa, got Victor. Not an equitable trade. And then Katie takes off with the Lyrans. So by 3060, the FedCom both does and does not exist. Not exactly the best way to be.
The Lyrans lost Melissa for Victor; not an advantageous trade. They got rid of Victor, only to have Katherine, which is even worse. I'm not well versed in the repercussions of the Skye rebellion, but it didn't seem to hurt them critically. The Lyrans are also still stuck with the Falcons, where the Dracs have only the Ghost Bears to deal with. I view the ARDC as loyal Lyrans, and so do not consider them a loss.
The FedSuns comes out pretty bad, what with Victor and all. First the Marik-Liao invasion. And then the Federated Suns covers much of the cost of Operations Bulldog and Serpent. They take heavy losses from that, with no gain whatsoever. Then the FedSuns ends up with Katherine...
Marik went two steps forward and two steps back. They're doing well by 3060, but they're also the guy from whose stomach the alien is birthed to attack the crew one by one. I don't think that guy survived.
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Rarich
Federated Suns
Leftenant General
Joined: 05-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 991
Location: United States
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| Posted: 22-Jan-2005 22:14 Post subject: RE: Which House came out of the '50s with the best position? |
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Marik, they won back the planets lost during the 4th war, managed to make a temporary peace with Liao at very little cost and got their economy pumped to hulk-like proportions by selling weapons to Kurita and the Fed-Com for use against the clans. They also gained a serious tech boost from the WOB, and probably have the biggest navy.
All the other states were still way behind in comparison, either still missing territory(Steiner, Liao, Kurita), or recovering from a civil war (Steiner, Davion) or internal strife (Kurita).
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Erenon
Blighted Sun Battalion
2nd Company
"Seraph's Slaughter"
Sergeant
Joined: 04-Jun-2004 00:00
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Location: Singapore
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| Posted: 22-Jan-2005 23:50 Post subject: RE: Which House came out of the '50s with the best position? |
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Marik holds vipers close to its breast. Liao is better off, yet has a long way to go.
And what about the periphery states? Some of them are led by Houses as well.
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Sir Henry
Team Bansai
Senior Tech Specialist
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Location: United States
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| Posted: 24-Jan-2005 18:15 Post subject: RE: Which House came out of the '50s with the best position? |
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The Cunninghams came out the best. They had the Fonz... 
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Sir Henry
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Gunslinger Patch
Royal Black Watch Regiment
Major
Joined: 04-Mar-2002 00:00
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| Posted: 24-Jan-2005 19:48 Post subject: RE: Which House came out of the '50s with the best position? |
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I'd say it was Marik.
On the plus side.
They got back planets, they did not suffer great losses at the hands of the Clans, and no one is trying to take out the Captain-General. In taking in the Word of Blake, they gained a whole military army of whackos to do the dirty work and get blamed for it instead of Thomas Marik.
In addition, unlike the Liaos, he has a clear heir and Sun Tzu does not. That and taking St. Ives amounted to civil war and cost them a goodly number of good troops and equipment to do it. Even if I still don't see how St. Ives could have been taken to begin with considering their mech factories and their army of high tech very large battlemechs.
On the down side.
I'm still not too clear on whether Word of Blake controls Thomas Marik, or he ultimatly is using them for his own ends. Also, he's getting pretty old. So why didn't they ever do a story line on him dying and what happened to the FWL in the aftermath?
In one of the last novels, I remember something about the Wobbies had been found out to be siphoning large amounts of money and gear to something secret. And Marik was gravely concerned to conclude that "It has to him." meaning the real Thomas Marik/Blakist looney tune secret leader.
But it was never elaborated on, the FWL has been ignored in the canon since the clan invasion started. The only novels we got dealth with FWL expatriots such as Comacho's Cabollieros. Nothing about stuff going on inside the borders.
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Karagin
Imperial Karagin Army
Imperial General
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Location: United States
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| Posted: 24-Jan-2005 21:20 Post subject: RE: Which House came out of the '50s with the best position? |
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Quote:
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On 2005-01-24 19:48, Gunslinger Patch wrote:But it was never elaborated on, the FWL has been ignored in the canon since the clan invasion started. The only novels we got dealth with FWL expatriots such as Comacho's Cabollieros. Nothing about stuff going on inside the borders.
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Uhmm there was the novel Idel War that had the Wobbies and some natives on Gisbon battleing it out, and then there was a really crappy novel called Star Lord that had Marik in there...and I believe there was some things there about what all was up with them in the Stackpole books prior to the collaspe of FASA and the changes that came with that.
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Karagin
Only the dead have seen the end of war. - Plato
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Rogue Penetrator
Federated Suns
Sergeant
Joined: 12-May-2005 00:00
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| Posted: 18-May-2005 21:31 Post subject: RE: Which House came out of the '50s with the best position? |
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For anyone wondering how the St. Ives Compact fell, Sun-Tzu's sister started nervegassing them and they sued for peace, Also at least some of the Star League units sent to reinforce St. Ives got mauled by Daeth Commandos and Death Commando trained guerillas .
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Karagin
Imperial Karagin Army
Imperial General
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Location: United States
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| Posted: 18-May-2005 23:20 Post subject: RE: Which House came out of the '50s with the best position? |
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I think the one house to come out all of this on top was Marik. They got a large infusion of technology, weapons sales are up and their main rivials got mauled in the fighting with the Clans.
Meanwhile the pact with Laio gained them again more tech and a chance to address internal matters while appearing to be less then out of joint.
The only other group to walk away from all of the events in the 50s with more gain were the Periphery states
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Karagin
Only the dead have seen the end of war. - Plato
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generalstoner
Federated Suns
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Joined: 20-Apr-2005 00:00
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| Posted: 19-May-2005 00:57 Post subject: RE: Which House came out of the '50s with the best position? |
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Whats up mud.
In my opinion i have to say that Marik came out on top. The size of the naval fleet they now possess, the advancement over the lyrans in economical terms and finally the fact that their military was sheltered from the clans and warfare since the 3020's basically puts them in the best position. You can't really even count Operation Guerrero since most of the conflicts were realtively low key and the majority were fought by League hired mercs.
Second best has to be house Liao in my opinion. They recovered terrritory and also benefited from the league alliance with the Wobbies.
As for third i have to say it is a tie between houses Davion and Kurita. Even though the FedSuns is saddled with a despot ruler the majority of there economic background is solid. Hell canon even states that the FedSuns virtually paid for Operation Bulldog and Serpent out of their own pockets! Their military is intact if somewhat divided, sort of status quo. Kurita made out like a bandit reclaiming the majority of its clan corridor but in the process inherited a very rebellious populace from the recaptured clan worlds. Also, these worlds were suppossedly stripped bare by thr SJ's. We all know the DC is not the richest house so who is going to rebuild these recaptured worlds for them??? It will shatter their economy to do so over night so this means a long time before reconstrcution is finished.
House Steiner, geez, what can we say. The Jade Falcons beat their teeth in on a daily basis. They are no longer the inner sphere's economic power house, the ARDC steals a lot of worlds from the, and Skye is still mighty pissed and tries to seceed. Total FUBAR in that realm.
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StarRaven
Federated Suns
Leftenant General
Joined: 01-Jun-2004 00:00
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Location: United States
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| Posted: 19-May-2005 02:01 Post subject: RE: Which House came out of the '50s with the best position? |
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Quote:
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On 2005-05-19 00:57, generalstoner wrote:
House Steiner, geez, what can we say. [. . .] the ARDC steals a lot of worlds from the[m],
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Why do you say it like that?
The ARDC did not break away or attempt to become independent, as Skye attempted to do, for example. They didn't cost the Lyrans anything. They even freed up supplies and materiel for the rest of the LAAF.
Could you (or anyone else who shares the same view of the ARDC) elaborate on why you say "steal?"
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Seraph
Blighted Sun Battalion
2nd Company
"Seraph's Slaughter"
Major
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| Posted: 19-May-2005 05:34 Post subject: RE: Which House came out of the '50s with the best position? |
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IIRC, katherine is upset by the ARDC. While it provides a block of worlds on the clan border that she doesn't have to worry about defending, she also cannot use those worlds militarily. She's not allowed to send her trtoops in there for raids into clan territory nor even for R&R. A chunk of the economic output is going to the ARDC insteadd of to the LA. Also I'm not sure she let them have those worlds, I think they did indeed just take them.
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Karagin
Imperial Karagin Army
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Location: United States
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| Posted: 19-May-2005 06:41 Post subject: RE: Which House came out of the '50s with the best position? |
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Quote:
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On 2005-05-19 00:57, generalstoner wrote:
Even though the FedSuns is saddled with a despot ruler
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Uhmm...who would this be? Victor or Katherine or Yvonne?
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Karagin
Only the dead have seen the end of war. - Plato
"Wasted trip Man. Nobody said nuthin' about lockin' horns with no tigers." Oddball
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generalstoner
Federated Suns
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| Posted: 19-May-2005 11:21 Post subject: RE: Which House came out of the '50s with the best position? |
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Katheine of course is the despot ruler. Her control of the media, here political appointees beign cronies, even her appointment of Simon Gallagher as the Prince's Champion, which was illegal considering she could not even have "been" the First Princess as she title herself due to lack of Military service. This is exactly why Yvonne was a Regent and not First Princess.
As for the ARDC "stealing" those worlds, i think you are blowing the word out of proportion somewhat. If you prefer Secession we can use that term. When Kell formed the ARDC he stated, "he did not want nor expect help from Katherine." well, he did not get anything but the lowest level of supplies from the LAAF. Even the so called Lyran regiments within the ARDC considered themselves more part of the ARDC defenses that the LA. So yeah, in a way Kell stole those worlds right out from underneath KAtherine's greedy nose. Her problem was to keep the nice outer look she needed to accept the fact or look like the despot ruler she truely was by militarily reabsorbing them.
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