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mud
Draconis Combine
Tai-sho
Joined: 23-Jul-2002 00:00
Posts: 1618
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 Posted: 07-Feb-2005 23:56 Post subject: Organizing combined forces |
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Traditionally so-called "combined" units consist of a group of different types of units grouped together under one high commander. Davion's RCTs are a good example of this: a regiment of 'mechs, with it's own command structure that does not really interact with the command structure of the regiments of armor attached to it.
I've been musing this over, and I think there's a better way to organize combined arms forces; integrate 'mechs and armor assets at the lance level. A typical lance under this system would include a single 'mech and a platoon of four vehicles, presumably under the command of the 'mechwarrior, who would be a lieutenant. This way, when the 'mech force deploys, it packs a lot more firepower onto a smaller front; since all of those tanks can stack into the same hex as the 'mech, your firepower is multiplied. Of course, this works best if you group units with similar movement speeds together.
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Seraph
Blighted Sun Battalion
2nd Company
"Seraph's Slaughter"
Major
Joined: 11-Mar-2004 00:00
Posts: 1744
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| Posted: 08-Feb-2005 03:58 Post subject: RE: Organizing combined forces |
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Funny enough, that's how my armor lancec is organized in ralgith's new campaign.
Lance composition:
SCP-1N Scorpion.
Demolisher Heavy Tank.
Rommel Tank.
LRM Carrier.
LRM Carrier.
I am the support lance for the group. I am also provide my own support for the support. Nothing like hiding the two heavy tanks behind a level one rise with the LRM carriers on the next rise. The enemy crests the rise in an attempt to close with the LRM carriers only to discover a trio of AC/20's at their feet. Scorpion fits in well as it's PPC can provide some long ranged fire as well as being able to go hull down and be mistaken for a tank. Possibly a Manticore.
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Erenon
Blighted Sun Battalion
2nd Company
"Seraph's Slaughter"
Sergeant
Joined: 04-Jun-2004 00:00
Posts: 976
Location: Singapore
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| Posted: 08-Feb-2005 09:21 Post subject: RE: Organizing combined forces |
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I'll have to say that the scorpion i salmost half tank itself 
Gove it tracks instead of legs and no one would even realise that its a mech. 
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ralgith
Blighted Sun Battalion
1st Company
"Ralgith's Renegades"
Colonel
Joined: 18-Aug-2003 00:00
Posts: 2021
Location: United States
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| Posted: 08-Feb-2005 15:55 Post subject: RE: Organizing combined forces |
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Funny enough, Seraph basically said the same thing while we were chatting when I was working on the unit T. O. & E. Which can be found at http://www.dubrin.net/shrike/ and click on the link for The Shrike's Talons. It isn't finished yet (need pilot names, links for ALL the mechs, etc, etc), but its coming along. With the NPC portions of the unit being furthest from completion. The PC portion is only the 3rd of the 2nd (3rd company, 2nd battalion).
[edit]
It should be noted that most of the unit was created with random rolls, including the skills for the warriors. I had to fudge it in a few places to fit the stories I've written about the unit, but most is random rolled off merc and fedcom tables (fedcom because the unit is based on New Avalon).
[/edit]
[ This Message was edited by: ralgith on 2005-02-08 16:01 ]
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Colonel Ralgith t'Mayasara
Blighted Sun Battalion
1st Company 'Ralgith's Renegades'
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Nightmare
Lyran Alliance
Kommandant-General
Joined: 03-May-2002 00:00
Posts: 2214
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| Posted: 08-Feb-2005 16:32 Post subject: RE: Organizing combined forces |
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I prefer to keep the lances separate. That's because I decide which element is the main force on a mission first, and then build the others as support. The main element commands, the support supports them.
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Daphne Wilde
Star League Defense Force
Lieutenant Colonel
Joined: 19-Sep-2003 00:00
Posts: 425
Location: United States
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| Posted: 09-Feb-2005 00:11 Post subject: RE: Organizing combined forces |
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I keep most of my units separate down to the lance/squad level. and build from there. ( ALTHO... I have done something slightly different with one of my 'special' units. a true combined regiment  ) for no other reason that I command a unit. not each person IN the unit. I can shrink down to my personal Mech and or lance. ( and quite frequently do or I would be playing all the live long day, as some have probably done....) but as Unit commander, I won't mess with my units below lance/squad level for the biggest reason. I have sub unit commanders for that task.
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504 Para. 82 Div.
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ralgith
Blighted Sun Battalion
1st Company
"Ralgith's Renegades"
Colonel
Joined: 18-Aug-2003 00:00
Posts: 2021
Location: United States
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| Posted: 09-Feb-2005 08:57 Post subject: RE: Organizing combined forces |
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I like the organization I used for my current merc unit for the campaign I'm doing. A company actually consists of: 3 lances mechs, 1 lance vehicles, 1 point of battle armor, 1 platoon of infantry, a lance of aerospace fighters, and 2 arty pieces. The only exception is the commander's company, which has double of some things. It works quite well so far (except we've not actually been able to USE the AeroSpace assets since MegaMek don't have support for them yet....)
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Colonel Ralgith t'Mayasara
Blighted Sun Battalion
1st Company 'Ralgith's Renegades'
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Wanallo
Federated Suns
Leftenant Colonel
Joined: 02-Jan-2004 00:00
Posts: 671
Location: United Kingdom
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| Posted: 09-Feb-2005 11:08 Post subject: RE: Organizing combined forces |
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I think that the same tactic has been tried. In the Israeli 6 day war. I'm sure that some of the Israeli units were arranged into one MBT to three support tanks. (I suppose the US equivilent would be one M1 Abrahams to 3 M3 Bradleys)
Anyway, these units were quickly overun by Syrian units, they work well unit they came up against 2 or 3 T62's or T54's and the light tanks were not much use)
Same would apply to Battletech, A lance of mechs would overwhelm that team easily. The point of the RCT is so the unit is delivered to the battlefield with all they need, they take whatever they need for that mission by arranging their forces into appropriate lances.
That is at least what i have gathered. I may be wrong about the RCT but the philosophy is correct-ish 
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mud
Draconis Combine
Tai-sho
Joined: 23-Jul-2002 00:00
Posts: 1618
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| Posted: 09-Feb-2005 16:58 Post subject: RE: Organizing combined forces |
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Naturally a lance of 'mechs would overwhelm four vehicles and one 'mech easily...my real point is that you should deploy your vehicles intermingled with your 'mechs, and deploy more vehicles than 'mechs....they are a lot more numerous after all. This also improves your survivability rates; the enemy has to choose which threat to target, the 'mechs or the tanks. What you don't want is your assets spread all over the field, you want them concentrated as much as possible; integrating the vehicles into the company structure would do this.
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Seraph
Blighted Sun Battalion
2nd Company
"Seraph's Slaughter"
Major
Joined: 11-Mar-2004 00:00
Posts: 1744
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| Posted: 09-Feb-2005 18:08 Post subject: RE: Organizing combined forces |
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In all actuallity I would organize my mixed unit depending on the types of units I have at my disposal. It depends on the number and types of mechs and tanks. If I had one fast mech like a Spider or Assassin and all my other mechs were slow pokes, I would prolly group the Spider with some fast hovercraft. Conversely If I had say a Demolisher or Behemoth that was slow, I would group him with some slow mechs. What ever helps keep the individual sub units of my unit together.
Second consideration is weapon types. I'd try to make at least one group a support group, one a strike, etc... As before, it all depends on what I have at my disposal.
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StarRaven
Federated Suns
Leftenant General
Joined: 01-Jun-2004 00:00
Posts: 1138
Location: United States
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| Posted: 10-Feb-2005 00:00 Post subject: RE: Organizing combined forces |
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It seems... odd. One 'Mech and four vehicles as the typical lance in an RCT? Sounds like a star the Hell's Horses would come up with. Maybe I don't see it right, but it seems like a weird idea.
Taking mud's RCT example; there's nothing in an RCT as defined which stops you from deploying this armor company here in support of this 'Mech company, and that one over there with that 'Mech company. This seems to get you exactly what you're looking for.
If you've got these mixed 'Mech/vehicle lances, then your organization will collapse completely if the whole RCT retreats, for example. Since the slower tracked armor will have to retreat before the 'Mechs (or be left behind), parts of every lance is retreating while other parts stay and fight. So you have a total collapse of lance organization. The same is true if you hit terrain traversable only by 'Mechs.
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On 2005-02-09 16:58, mud wrote:
Naturally a lance of 'mechs would overwhelm four vehicles and one 'mech easily...my real point is that you should deploy your vehicles intermingled with your 'mechs, and deploy more vehicles than 'mechs....they are a lot more numerous after all. This also improves your survivability rates; the enemy has to choose which threat to target, the 'mechs or the tanks. What you don't want is your assets spread all over the field, you want them concentrated as much as possible; integrating the vehicles into the company structure would do this.
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Yes it would. But so would the RCT format, and without screwing your small unit integrity when things go wrong.
Besides, you can get all of that from an RCT. Not having everyone in the same lance doesn't stop a lance of armor from being deployed alongside a lance of 'Mechs and providing the same target distraction effect you describe.
While you do indeed want your units concentrated, spreading them is occassionally unavoidable. The RCT format would not prevent you from concentrating 'Mechs and armor in a single location. But, neither would it prevent you from sending two 'Mech battalions to crush this flanking attempt, while the third battalion and your armor regiments hold the line until the 'Mechs return.
But try to do that when every lance is part 'Mechs and part tanks. You're not sending two battalions of 'Mechs at all; you're sending two battalions' worth numberwise; two battalions worth of partial lances, each of which is missing some or much of its accustomed firepower.
My point being that this lance integration seems to deprive you of much of your flexibility at the RCT level and slow the whole thing down. If the 'Mechs can't charge ahead of the vehicles without having their lance organization collapse, then Ravannion's horde of Locusts will outmanuever you everytime.
[ This Message was edited by: StarRaven on 2005-02-10 00:03 ]
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Seraph
Blighted Sun Battalion
2nd Company
"Seraph's Slaughter"
Major
Joined: 11-Mar-2004 00:00
Posts: 1744
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| Posted: 10-Feb-2005 16:14 Post subject: RE: Organizing combined forces |
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If that was to me, you didn't read my post. I generally group them according to speed classes first. Then weapon groups second. And a RCT in btech(Davion) Mixes the unbits at battalion level, one battalion of mechs working with one battalion of tanks while working with another battalion of either mechs, tanks, or grunts.
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