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Warhammer: 3025
Freelance
Captain, AFFC (Ret.)
Joined: 29-Jan-2005 00:00
Posts: 1856
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 Posted: 28-Feb-2005 21:28 Post subject: Definitive proof of my point! |
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My PDF copy of the Battletech Rulebook (4th Edition) has solidified my view that the Ultra Autocannon is a weapon in violation of the spirit of autocannons (with that whole "double your Rate of Fire" thing). I have capitalized the relevant part of the passage, as I don't know how to do bolds or italics on this forum.
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An Autocannon is a rapid-firing, auto-loading weapon that FIRES HIGH-SPEED STREAMS of high-explosive, armor-piercing shells. Light autocannon shells range from 30 to 90 millimeters in diameter, and heavy autocannon barrels may be 80 to 120 millimeters in diameter or larger.
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This is why you will never see an Ultra-AC mounted on any of my designs. 
[ This Message was edited by: Warhammer: 3025 on 2005-02-28 21:30 ]
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bladewind
Free Rasalhague Republic
Major General
Joined: 02-Oct-2004 00:00
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Location: Singapore
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| Posted: 28-Feb-2005 21:54 Post subject: RE: Definitive proof of my point! |
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i use mainly LBX and Gauss rifles.
Doesnt affect me that mucho..
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Moonlapse Vertigo
Clan Goliath Scorpion
Star Captain
Joined: 02-Mar-2004 00:00
Posts: 207
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| Posted: 28-Feb-2005 22:08 Post subject: RE: Definitive proof of my point! |
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| Maybe I missed your comments about it in other threads... but I don't understand your point.
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StarRaven
Federated Suns
Leftenant General
Joined: 01-Jun-2004 00:00
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Location: United States
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| Posted: 28-Feb-2005 22:19 Post subject: RE: Definitive proof of my point! |
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On 2005-02-28 22:08, Moonlapse Vertigo wrote:
Maybe I missed your comments about it in other threads... but I don't understand your point.
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He's saying that an ultra AC makes no sense (fluffwise) because you can't just arbitrarially double your rate of fire.
Personally, I don't use ultras because LBXs are lighter and burn less ammo. I also don't like the fact that you can't unjam a jammed UAC. I do like RACs though.
And Warhammer: Check the FAQ for formatting codes.
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Moonlapse Vertigo
Clan Goliath Scorpion
Star Captain
Joined: 02-Mar-2004 00:00
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| Posted: 28-Feb-2005 23:01 Post subject: RE: Definitive proof of my point! |
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On 2005-02-28 22:19, StarRaven wrote:
He's saying that an ultra AC makes no sense (fluffwise) because you can't just arbitrarially double your rate of fire.
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It makes sense to me. Ultras are designed to have twice the rate of fire as a regular AC, but the rapid firing loader mechanisms can break under the strain of going to fast, so the pilot can fire at a "normal" AC rate to avoid this.
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Erenon
Blighted Sun Battalion
2nd Company
"Seraph's Slaughter"
Sergeant
Joined: 04-Jun-2004 00:00
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Location: Singapore
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| Posted: 01-Mar-2005 00:06 Post subject: RE: Definitive proof of my point! |
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I think an example like how Autocannons fire at say 60 rounds a minute while ULtra AC/s fire at 120 rounds per minute sounds about ok to me..
Case in point, the OTO-Melara 76mm autocannon (for want of a better term) found on many frigates etc can fire 120 rounds per minute.
Check the link for details
http://www.sfu.ca/casr/101-navgun1.htm
Compare that with this..
http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/ship/weaps/mk-75.htm
[ This Message was edited by: Erenon on 2005-03-01 00:06 ]
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Warhammer: 3025
Freelance
Captain, AFFC (Ret.)
Joined: 29-Jan-2005 00:00
Posts: 1856
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| Posted: 01-Mar-2005 00:16 Post subject: RE: Definitive proof of my point! |
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Neither of those systems can spontaneusly double their ROF, can they?
Now, if an Ultra fired a larger-caliber round in its' secondary fire mode, much like a modern M-16 with it's "Master Key" attachment, I would buy that. It would require a second ton of ammo, much like the LB-X Autocannon requires a second ton of ammo to use its cluster munitions (or the user would have to pick between ammo types, but that's not the point).
In fact, that sounds like it would be an interesting weapon...
_________________
Evil is like a bowl of oranges. Only one, instead, is an orange of DOOM. That orange has a fate to rule over the other oranges with an iron fist. That orange is me.
Because sometimes, there are many guards in the castle.
Ya Rl'yeh!
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bladewind
Free Rasalhague Republic
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Location: Singapore
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| Posted: 01-Mar-2005 00:32 Post subject: RE: Definitive proof of my point! |
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i always thought the UACs as 2 guns in 1.
Kinda like 2 miniguns fed to the same belt of ammo. Here the double rate of fire happens due to both barrels engaging at the same time but i have no idea how would it jam....
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Stinger
The Knights of Chaos
General
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| Posted: 01-Mar-2005 00:47 Post subject: RE: Definitive proof of my point! |
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I have always viewed the Autocannon entirely differently. I have always seen them (fluff be damned), as the cannons we have now.
Example:
Ac2 - AAA Battery
AC5 - One of the German 88's (cant think of anything a bit more modern)
AC10 - Tank Cannon
Ac20 - Battleship cannon
I just dont see them as firing a "stream" of shells, (that is one of the reasons I dont like the RAC).
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StarRaven
Federated Suns
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| Posted: 01-Mar-2005 01:15 Post subject: RE: Definitive proof of my point! |
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I've never formed a full-fledged mental image of the detailed difference between ACs, LBXs, and Ultras (not as detailed as my image of PPCs, lasers, and gauss rounds). I picture not so much a stream of shells, as a burst. Sort of a mix between the MechWarrior 3 and MechWarrior 4 ACs, I geuss. I've never really pictured them as single shot weapons, except for the LBX cluster round. That's a single shot. Interesting how everyone sees something different.
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Erenon
Blighted Sun Battalion
2nd Company
"Seraph's Slaughter"
Sergeant
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Location: Singapore
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| Posted: 01-Mar-2005 01:26 Post subject: RE: Definitive proof of my point! |
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Here's my take on the story based on what i sent through.
AC: capable of firing 60 rounds a minute (short bursts... doesn't actually do so.. say it fires a 15 round burst for 15 seconds.. there's a lot of precedence for that in the real world.
Ultra ACs: Capable of firing up to 120 rpm. Can be toned down. (So on ultra this fires a 30 round burst).
RAC: Think miniguns... big miniguns..multiple barrels and heavy duty loading systems. 300 rpm. (Fires a short burst of between 15 rounds to 90 rounds from all six barrels..).
*note firing a full burst for a whole minute is just insane, the barrel won't like it...
_________________
"My job is to keep the majority of people in this country alive. That's it. If fifty-one percent eat a meal tomorrow and forty-nine percent don't, I've done my job." - The Beast (AKA The President), Transmetropolitan
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chihawk
Clan Blood Spirit
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| Posted: 01-Mar-2005 06:49 Post subject: RE: Definitive proof of my point! |
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Quote:
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On 2005-02-28 21:28, Warhammer: 3025 wrote:
My PDF copy of the Battletech Rulebook (4th Edition) has solidified my view that the Ultra Autocannon is a weapon in violation of the spirit of autocannons (with that whole "double your Rate of Fire" thing). I have capitalized the relevant part of the passage, as I don't know how to do bolds or italics on this forum.
Quote:
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An Autocannon is a rapid-firing, auto-loading weapon that FIRES HIGH-SPEED STREAMS of high-explosive, armor-piercing shells. Light autocannon shells range from 30 to 90 millimeters in diameter, and heavy autocannon barrels may be 80 to 120 millimeters in diameter or larger.
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This is why you will never see an Ultra-AC mounted on any of my designs.
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Just as the fluff in the TRO has no impact on the game, the fluff in the rules has no impact on the actual rules.
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Oafman
Draconis Combine
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| Posted: 01-Mar-2005 09:45 Post subject: RE: Definitive proof of my point! |
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And that is why I use the UACs in some of my designs. 
Just because the rules allow something to work even though the fluff doesn't seem like it would allow it go ahead and use the loophole. (see signature on post) 
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DarkAdder
Clan Star Adder
Star Commander
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| Posted: 01-Mar-2005 13:16 Post subject: RE: Definitive proof of my point! |
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I just shy away from UACs because they ALWAYS jam on me. Doesnt matter how long I use them at standard rate, as soon as I declare Ultra rate, the [CENCORED FOR DECENCY] jams up. 
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Oafman
Draconis Combine
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| Posted: 01-Mar-2005 14:44 Post subject: RE: Definitive proof of my point! |
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I have that problem with the UAC 20s. Now my Atlas that I retrofitted with a couple of UAC 2s for sniping I have the best of luck with those. A few games back I guy kept hiding behind partial cover with his assault at extreme long range for the ac20. I think he was hoping to avoid the massive damage of going toe to toe with an Atlas. So I sniped 2 head shots 2 turns in a row with those UAC 2s. He was VERY careful with that mech the rest of the game. It only lost 4 points of damage, but he was already pushing too many consiousness rolls. As soon as it cam within range of my Fast Frog I got it in the head with a Med Laser and he passed out. Great fun.
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