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Karagin
Imperial Karagin Army
Imperial General
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 4120
Location: United States
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 Posted: 28-Feb-2005 13:16 Post subject: Design Challenge Wheeled or Hover |
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Okay here is a challenge for everyone:
Take a 30 ton vehicle, using IS tech, (levle 2) it must move at least 7/11, have 9 tons of armor and a LRM15 on it. Every thing else, like fusion, or ICE or other armaments it carries is up to you the builder.
The challenge here is to get all of this to fit on BOTH a wheeled chassis and a hover chassis. Fluff is welcome, and would be appericated, but if you can't come up with any that is fine. Please be original and not revamp an existing design.
Looking forward to the ideas and have fun with this one.
_________________
Karagin
Only the dead have seen the end of war. - Plato
"Wasted trip Man. Nobody said nuthin' about lockin' horns with no tigers." Oddball
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Warhammer: 3025
Freelance
Captain, AFFC (Ret.)
Joined: 29-Jan-2005 00:00
Posts: 1856
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| Posted: 28-Feb-2005 15:42 Post subject: RE: Design Challenge Wheeled or Hover |
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Here goes.
Type/Model: Sobel (hover)
Tech: Inner Sphere / 3050
Config: Tracked Vehicle
Rules: Level 2, Custom design
Mass: 30 tons
Power Plant: 210 Various XL Fusion
Cruise Speed: 75.6 km/h
Maximum Speed: 118.8 km/h
Armor Type: Various Ferro-Fibrous
Armament:
1 LRM 15
1 Medium Laser
Manufacturer: Various
Location: Various
Communications System: Various
Targeting & Tracking System: Various
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
==Overview:==
The Sobel class modular armored vehicle is one of the more unique vehicles
used by the Inner Sphere today.
==Capabilities:==
The Sobel is unique among armored vehicles in that it has two modes of
locomotion, and can switch between them with just a few hours' work from a
tech crew.
The hover variant is generally considered to be the less powerful of the two
modes, as it only has one ton of LRM ammo.
--------------------------------------------------------
Type/Model: Sobel (hover)
Mass: 30 tons
Equipment: Items Mass
Int. Struct.: 12 pts Standard 0 3.00
Engine: 210 XL Fusion 2 4.50
Shielding & Transmission Equipment: 0 2.50
Cruise MP: 7
Flank MP: 11
Heat Sinks: 10 Single 0 .00
Cockpit & Controls: 0 1.50
Crew: 2 Members 0 .00
Armor Factor: 161 pts Ferro-Fibrous 2 9.00
Internal Armor
Structure Value
Front: 3 50
Left / Right Sides: 3 38/38
Rear: 3 35
Weapons and Equipment Loc Heat Ammo Items Mass
--------------------------------------------------------
1 LRM 15 Front 0 8 2 8.00
1 Medium Laser Front 3 1 1.00
1 C.A.S.E. Equipment Body 1 .50
--------------------------------------------------------
TOTALS: 3 8 30.00
Items & Tons Left: 3 .00
Calculated Factors:
Total Cost: 2,860,000 C-Bills
Battle Value: 537
Cost per BV: 5,325.88
Weapon Value: 408 / 408 (Ratio = .76 / .76)
Damage Factors: SRDmg = 9; MRDmg = 7; LRDmg = 4
BattleForce2: MP: 7T, Armor/Structure: 0 / 6
Damage PB/M/L: 1/1/1, Overheat: 0
Class: GL; Point Value: 5
Specials: if
__________________________________________________________
Type/Model: Sobel (Wheeled)
Tech: Inner Sphere / 3050
Config: Wheeled Vehicle
Rules: Level 2, Custom design
Mass: 30 tons
Power Plant: 190 Various XL Fusion
Cruise Speed: 75.6 km/h
Maximum Speed: 118.8 km/h
Armor Type: Various Ferro-Fibrous
Armament:
1 LRM 15
1 Medium Laser
Manufacturer: Various
Location: Various
Communications System: Various
Targeting & Tracking System: Various
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
==Overview:==
The Sobel class modular armored vehicle is one of the more unique vehicles
used by the Inner Sphere today.
==Capabilities:==
The Sobel is unique among armored vehicles in that it has two modes of
locomotion, and can switch between them with just a few hours' work from a
tech crew.
The wheeled mode is generally the most powerful, as without the heavy hover
fans, it can store an additional ton of LRM ammunition.
--------------------------------------------------------
Type/Model: Sobel (Wheeled)
Mass: 30 tons
Equipment: Items Mass
Int. Struct.: 12 pts Standard 0 3.00
Engine: 190 XL Fusion 2 4.00
Shielding & Transmission Equipment: 0 2.00
Cruise MP: 7
Flank MP: 11
Heat Sinks: 10 Single 0 .00
Cockpit & Controls: 0 1.50
Crew: 2 Members 0 .00
Armor Factor: 161 pts Ferro-Fibrous 2 9.00
Internal Armor
Structure Value
Front: 3 50
Left / Right Sides: 3 38/38
Rear: 3 35
Weapons and Equipment Loc Heat Ammo Items Mass
--------------------------------------------------------
1 LRM 15 Front 0 16 2 9.00
1 Medium Laser Front 3 1 1.00
1 C.A.S.E. Equipment Body 1 .50
--------------------------------------------------------
TOTALS: 3 8 30.00
Items & Tons Left: 3 .00
Calculated Factors:
Total Cost: 2,380,500 C-Bills
Battle Value: 544
Cost per BV: 4,375.92
Weapon Value: 408 / 408 (Ratio = .75 / .75)
Damage Factors: SRDmg = 9; MRDmg = 7; LRDmg = 4
BattleForce2: MP: 7W, Armor/Structure: 0 / 6
Damage PB/M/L: 1/1/1, Overheat: 0
Class: GL; Point Value: 5
Specials: if
[ This Message was edited by: Warhammer: 3025 on 2005-02-28 15:43 ]
_________________
Evil is like a bowl of oranges. Only one, instead, is an orange of DOOM. That orange has a fate to rule over the other oranges with an iron fist. That orange is me.
Because sometimes, there are many guards in the castle.
Ya Rl'yeh!
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StarRaven
Federated Suns
Leftenant General
Joined: 01-Jun-2004 00:00
Posts: 1138
Location: United States
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| Posted: 01-Mar-2005 00:33 Post subject: RE: Design Challenge Wheeled or Hover |
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Can't be done. Well, that's not quite right. A 30 ton hover with 9 tons armor has 7.5 tons free. HMVee (I found some more disposable income) won't permit me to mount four rounds of LRM 15 ammo, even with FA enabled. I can do that by hand, but how useful is four shots, anyway? What say you, Karagin?
Warhammer: you might want to check your hover version again. I tried for a good ten minutes to figure how you did what I can't, when I noticed that it has no lift equipment - because it's a tracked vehicle.
Here's the wheeled one, though. Beyond attributing it to my fictional company (let's not think about that further), it is fluffless, I'm afraid. That might change, but not tonight.
BattleTech Vehicle Technical Readout
VALIDATED
Type/Model: Rattler W
Tech: Inner Sphere / 3067
Config: Wheeled Vehicle
Rules: Level 2, Custom design
Mass: 30 tons
Power Plant: 190 Avalon Heavy XL Fusion
Cruise Speed: 75.6 km/h
Maximum Speed: 118.8 km/h
Armor Type: StarGuard CIV Ferro-Fibrous
Armament:
1 Valiant Arbalest LRM 15 w/ Artemis IV
1 Chiscomp 2000 ER Small Laser
Manufacturer: Avalon Heavy Vehicles
Location: New Avalon
Communications System: Achernar Electronics HID-21
Targeting & Tracking System: Federated Hunter Mark II
--------------------------------------------------------
Type/Model: Rattler W
Mass: 30 tons
Equipment: Items Mass
Int. Struct.: 12 pts Standard 0 3.00
Engine: 190 XL Fusion 2 4.00
Shielding & Transmission Equipment: 0 2.00
Cruise MP: 7
Flank MP: 11
Heat Sinks: 10 Single 0 .00
Cockpit & Controls: 0 1.50
Crew: 2 Members 0 .00
Armor Factor: 161 pts Ferro-Fibrous 2 9.00
Internal Armor
Structure Value
Front: 3 50
Left / Right Sides: 3 41/41
Rear: 3 29
Weapons and Equipment Loc Heat Ammo Items Mass
--------------------------------------------------------
1 LRM 15 w/ Artemis IV Front 0 16 2 10.00
1 ER Small Laser Front 2 1 .50
--------------------------------------------------------
TOTALS: 2 7 30.00
Items & Tons Left: 4 .00
Calculated Factors:
Total Cost: 2,473,938 C-Bills
Battle Value: 541
Cost per BV: 4,572.9
Weapon Value: 383 / 326 (Ratio = .71 / .60)
Damage Factors: SRDmg = 8; MRDmg = 8; LRDmg = 5
BattleForce2: MP: 7W, Armor/Structure: 0 / 6
Damage PB/M/L: 1/2/1, Overheat: 0
Class: GL; Point Value: 5
Specials: if
_________________
"Politics is supposed to be the second oldest profession. I have come to realize that it bears a very close semblance to the first."
- Attributed to General Aleksandr Kerensky
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Warhammer: 3025
Freelance
Captain, AFFC (Ret.)
Joined: 29-Jan-2005 00:00
Posts: 1856
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| Posted: 01-Mar-2005 00:52 Post subject: RE: Design Challenge Wheeled or Hover |
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Well, carp. I had a hard enough time trying to get those two versions to work and meet the criteria. With the (actual  ) hover chassis, I really couldn't do it.
[ This Message was edited by: Warhammer: 3025 on 2005-03-01 01:38 ]
_________________
Evil is like a bowl of oranges. Only one, instead, is an orange of DOOM. That orange has a fate to rule over the other oranges with an iron fist. That orange is me.
Because sometimes, there are many guards in the castle.
Ya Rl'yeh!
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Stinger
The Knights of Chaos
General
Joined: 30-Apr-2002 00:00
Posts: 1833
Location: United States
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| Posted: 01-Mar-2005 01:21 Post subject: RE: Design Challenge Wheeled or Hover |
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This is the best I could do for the wheeled. The only way to get the hovercraft to work is to drop all 3 of the med lasers.
BattleTech Vehicle Technical Readout
VALIDATED
Type/Model: Voodoo
Tech: Inner Sphere / 3060
Config: Wheeled Vehicle
Rules: Level 2, Standard design
Mass: 30 tons
Power Plant: 190 DAV XL Fusion
Cruise Speed: 75.6 km/h
Maximum Speed: 118.8 km/h
Armor Type: Ferro-Fibrous
Armament:
1 LRM 15
3 Medium Lasers
Manufacturer: (Unknown)
Location: (Unknown)
Communications System: (Unknown)
Targeting & Tracking System: (Unknown)
--------------------------------------------------------
Type/Model: Voodoo
Mass: 30 tons
Equipment: Items Mass
Int. Struct.: 12 pts Standard 0 3.00
Engine: 190 XL Fusion 2 4.00
Shielding & Transmission Equipment: 0 2.00
Cruise MP: 7
Flank MP: 11
Heat Sinks: 10 Single 0 .00
Cockpit & Controls: 0 1.50
Crew: 2 Members 0 .00
Armor Factor: 144 pts Ferro-Fibrous 2 8.50
Internal Armor
Structure Value
Front: 3 45
Left / Right Sides: 3 35/35
Rear: 3 29
Weapons and Equipment Loc Heat Ammo Items Mass
--------------------------------------------------------
1 LRM 15 Front 0 8 2 8.00
1 Medium Laser Front 3 1 1.00
1 Medium Laser Front 3 1 1.00
1 Medium Laser Front 3 1 1.00
--------------------------------------------------------
TOTALS: 9 9 30.00
Items & Tons Left: 2 .00
Calculated Factors:
Total Cost: 2,369,000 C-Bills
Battle Value: 659
Cost per BV: 3,594.84
Weapon Value: 600 / 600 (Ratio = .91 / .91)
Damage Factors: SRDmg = 17; MRDmg = 9; LRDmg = 4
BattleForce2: MP: 7W, Armor/Structure: 0 / 5
Damage PB/M/L: 2/2/1, Overheat: 0
Class: GL; Point Value: 7
Specials: if
This is the hovercraft version
BattleTech Vehicle Technical Readout
VALIDATED
Type/Model: Voodoo VDO-1
Tech: Inner Sphere / 3060
Config: Hovercraft
Rules: Level 2, Standard design
Mass: 30 tons
Power Plant: 80 VOX XL Fusion
Cruise Speed: 75.6 km/h
Maximum Speed: 118.8 km/h
Armor Type: Ferro-Fibrous
Armament:
1 LRM 15
Manufacturer: (Unknown)
Location: (Unknown)
Communications System: (Unknown)
Targeting & Tracking System: (Unknown)
--------------------------------------------------------
Type/Model: Voodoo VDO-1
Mass: 30 tons
Equipment: Items Mass
Int. Struct.: 12 pts Standard 0 3.00
Engine: 80 XL Fusion 2 4.00
Shielding & Transmission Equipment: 0 2.00
Cruise MP: 7
Flank MP: 11
Heat Sinks: 10 Single 0 .00
Cockpit & Controls: 0 1.50
Crew: 2 Members 0 .00
Lift Equipment: 0 3.00
Armor Factor: 144 pts Ferro-Fibrous 2 8.50
Internal Armor
Structure Value
Front: 3 45
Left / Right Sides: 3 35/35
Rear: 3 29
Weapons and Equipment Loc Heat Ammo Items Mass
--------------------------------------------------------
1 LRM 15 Front 0 8 2 8.00
--------------------------------------------------------
TOTALS: 0 6 30.00
Items & Tons Left: 5 .00
Calculated Factors:
Total Cost: 1,792,000 C-Bills
Battle Value: 395
Cost per BV: 4,536.71
Weapon Value: 254 / 254 (Ratio = .64 / .64)
Damage Factors: SRDmg = 5; MRDmg = 7; LRDmg = 4
BattleForce2: MP: 7H, Armor/Structure: 0 / 5
Damage PB/M/L: -/1/1, Overheat: 0
Class: GL; Point Value: 4
Specials: if
I like the first one but the second one I dont like to much.
_________________
Stinger
If it's "creepy" to use the Internet, military satellites, and robot aircraft to find a house full of gorgeous young models so I can drop in on them unexpected, then FINE, I'm "creepy". Howard Wolowitz. BBT.
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Seraph
Blighted Sun Battalion
2nd Company
"Seraph's Slaughter"
Major
Joined: 11-Mar-2004 00:00
Posts: 1744
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| Posted: 01-Mar-2005 04:09 Post subject: RE: Design Challenge Wheeled or Hover |
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The hover version would be impossible. I can put all that on but only have 0.5 tons left over for ammo.
-edit- If endosteel structure is feasable then I could have 1 ton ammo and 1 ton in extra ammo or 1 or 2 secondary weapons.
[ This Message was edited by: Seraph on 2005-03-01 04:11 ]
_________________
If ignorance is bliss, then why are you so miserable?
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Seraph
Blighted Sun Battalion
2nd Company
"Seraph's Slaughter"
Major
Joined: 11-Mar-2004 00:00
Posts: 1744
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| Posted: 01-Mar-2005 04:12 Post subject: RE: Design Challenge Wheeled or Hover |
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How'd you get a 4 ton engine on that hovercraft? Hovercraft have a minimum engine weight of 20% of vehicle weight.
_________________
If ignorance is bliss, then why are you so miserable?
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Karagin
Imperial Karagin Army
Imperial General
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 4120
Location: United States
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| Posted: 01-Mar-2005 10:51 Post subject: RE: Design Challenge Wheeled or Hover |
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You can get the ammo on the hover since you can adjust the ammo amounts by quater shots etc...HMVee will allow you do so. It can be done, just play around with it.
Also did you use all of the high tech wonder toys? XL, Ferro, etc?
_________________
Karagin
Only the dead have seen the end of war. - Plato
"Wasted trip Man. Nobody said nuthin' about lockin' horns with no tigers." Oddball
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Karagin
Imperial Karagin Army
Imperial General
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 4120
Location: United States
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| Posted: 01-Mar-2005 10:53 Post subject: RE: Design Challenge Wheeled or Hover |
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He used an XL engine, that cuts the weight down, and IRC the engine is figured from the lighter weight for Hovers once the XL choice is taken, so it meets the rules and works under the current BMRr.
_________________
Karagin
Only the dead have seen the end of war. - Plato
"Wasted trip Man. Nobody said nuthin' about lockin' horns with no tigers." Oddball
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StarRaven
Federated Suns
Leftenant General
Joined: 01-Jun-2004 00:00
Posts: 1138
Location: United States
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| Posted: 01-Mar-2005 11:54 Post subject: RE: Design Challenge Wheeled or Hover |
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Quote:
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On 2005-03-01 10:51, Karagin wrote:
You can get the ammo on the hover since you can adjust the ammo amounts by quater shots etc...HMVee will allow you do so. It can be done, just play around with it.
Also did you use all of the high tech wonder toys? XL, Ferro, etc?
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Yes. XL engine and FF armor. Just like on the wheeled version, which didn't come out too badly.
Can you tell me how the partial tons of ammo is done? Because I'm not seeing it.
_________________
"Politics is supposed to be the second oldest profession. I have come to realize that it bears a very close semblance to the first."
- Attributed to General Aleksandr Kerensky
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Karagin
Imperial Karagin Army
Imperial General
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 4120
Location: United States
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| Posted: 01-Mar-2005 13:02 Post subject: RE: Design Challenge Wheeled or Hover |
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Okay all you need to do is highlight the weapon with ammo, right click and a new window will open and allow you to change the number of weapons of the type you pick, as well as ammo, the ammo is at the bottom half of the window, you will see things like Change by full ton, half ton, quater ton, by shot.
You pick what you want, then change the number watching the remaining tonnage, and the program will either let you know it's all good, or not with the red light in the bottom where the remaining tonnage is etc...
You need FA on for this to work. I use it a lot to get rid of some of the odd weights that come up from time to time and it also allows more of a reasonable load out for some of the units. Going with the idea that not all units are going to get lucky have even amounts of ammo.
_________________
Karagin
Only the dead have seen the end of war. - Plato
"Wasted trip Man. Nobody said nuthin' about lockin' horns with no tigers." Oddball
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StarRaven
Federated Suns
Leftenant General
Joined: 01-Jun-2004 00:00
Posts: 1138
Location: United States
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| Posted: 01-Mar-2005 15:37 Post subject: RE: Design Challenge Wheeled or Hover |
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Thanks, Karagin.
BattleTech Vehicle Technical Readout
VALIDATED
Type/Model: Rattler H
Tech: Inner Sphere / 3060
Config: Hovercraft
Rules: Level 2-FA, Standard design
Mass: 30 tons
Power Plant: 170 Avalon Heavy XL Fusion
Cruise Speed: 108.0 km/h
Maximum Speed: 162.0 km/h
Armor Type: StarGuard CIV Ferro-Fibrous
Armament:
1 Valiant Arbalest LRM 15
Manufacturer: Avalon Heavy Vehicles
Location: New Avalon
Communications System: Achernar Electronics HID-21
Targeting & Tracking System: Federated Hunter Mark II
--------------------------------------------------------
Type/Model: Rattler H
Mass: 30 tons
Construction Options: Fractional Accounting
Equipment: Items Mass
Int. Struct.: 12 pts Standard 0 3.00
Engine: 170 XL Fusion 2 4.00
Shielding & Transmission Equipment: 0 2.00
Cruise MP: 10
Flank MP: 15
Heat Sinks: 10 Single 0 .00
Cockpit & Controls: 0 1.50
Crew: 2 Members 0 .00
Lift Equipment: 0 3.00
Armor Factor: 161 pts Ferro-Fibrous 2 9.00
Internal Armor
Structure Value
Front: 3 50
Left / Right Sides: 3 41/41
Rear: 3 29
Weapons and Equipment Loc Heat Ammo Items Mass
--------------------------------------------------------
1 LRM 15 Front 0 4 2 7.50
--------------------------------------------------------
TOTALS: 0 6 30.00
Items & Tons Left: 5 .00
Calculated Factors:
Total Cost: 2,936,000 C-Bills
Battle Value: 473
Cost per BV: 6,207.19
Weapon Value: 323 / 323 (Ratio = .68 / .68)
Damage Factors: SRDmg = 5; MRDmg = 7; LRDmg = 4
BattleForce2: MP: 10H, Armor/Structure: 0 / 6
Damage PB/M/L: -/1/1, Overheat: 0
Class: GL; Point Value: 5
Specials: if
_________________
"Politics is supposed to be the second oldest profession. I have come to realize that it bears a very close semblance to the first."
- Attributed to General Aleksandr Kerensky
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Stinger
The Knights of Chaos
General
Joined: 30-Apr-2002 00:00
Posts: 1833
Location: United States
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| Posted: 01-Mar-2005 16:07 Post subject: RE: Design Challenge Wheeled or Hover |
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Not sure Heavy Metal Humvee did it. Says its legal.
_________________
Stinger
If it's "creepy" to use the Internet, military satellites, and robot aircraft to find a house full of gorgeous young models so I can drop in on them unexpected, then FINE, I'm "creepy". Howard Wolowitz. BBT.
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StarRaven
Federated Suns
Leftenant General
Joined: 01-Jun-2004 00:00
Posts: 1138
Location: United States
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| Posted: 01-Mar-2005 16:23 Post subject: RE: Design Challenge Wheeled or Hover |
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Quote:
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On 2005-03-01 16:07, Stinger wrote:
Not sure Heavy Metal Humvee did it. Says its legal.
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Huh? I don't understand what you're saying.
_________________
"Politics is supposed to be the second oldest profession. I have come to realize that it bears a very close semblance to the first."
- Attributed to General Aleksandr Kerensky
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Seraph
Blighted Sun Battalion
2nd Company
"Seraph's Slaughter"
Major
Joined: 11-Mar-2004 00:00
Posts: 1744
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| Posted: 01-Mar-2005 16:29 Post subject: RE: Design Challenge Wheeled or Hover |
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He's talking about the hovercraft's engine weight. In the vehicle construction rules it states that a hovercraft's engine can be no lighter than 20% of the vehicle's weight. On a 30 ton craft it means the engine can be no lighter than 6 tons. If you go by the engine tables for hovercraft. A 30 tonner going 7/11 would have: 5 ton ICE engine, 4 ton fusion engine, or a 2 ton XL fusion engine. But because of the rule of minimum 20% it means the smallest engine will weigh 6 tons.
_________________
If ignorance is bliss, then why are you so miserable?
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