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ralgith
Blighted Sun Battalion
1st Company
"Ralgith's Renegades"
Colonel
Joined: 18-Aug-2003 00:00
Posts: 2021
Location: United States
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 Posted: 22-Sep-2005 13:29 Post subject: RE: Dawn Of The Jihad |
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On 2005-09-22 11:43, Wanallo wrote:
From what ive understood there was something of great power or value on Terra. Hence the reason for the quick strike. I know there are mentions of the WoB looking for memory cores to build Ragnaroks, which im not sure are mechs or what  (guessing mechs)
The way that it seems the WoB did it was not through overwhelming force but extrememley well timed and placed attacks. I mean seriously if you want to start a war between countries severe attrocities are the best. Also, i think the defences of certain planets are overatted. It would be easy for a fleet to move through space unseen. Surely there were more jump points that are known by the succesors. The Star League would have known more. And who knows what was hidden in the CastleBrians on Terra...
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I own both MechAssault games for my X-Box, the Ragnarok and another super poweful mech as well as a surprise at the end... anyways  yes, they find these memory cores that are very small, and there are 5 of them. When placed together they give special abilities/powers and a lotta blah blah blah. Anyways, play these games for a little insight if you want... I skipped most of the story so I could just blast the hell outta stuff
Oh, and PPCs are a pain in the ass in both games, you have to hold the trigger to charge them, they can be fired with varying levels of charge past the minimum, but they suck. Gimme the gauss any day
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Colonel Ralgith t'Mayasara
Blighted Sun Battalion
1st Company 'Ralgith's Renegades'
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Wanallo
Federated Suns
Leftenant Colonel
Joined: 02-Jan-2004 00:00
Posts: 671
Location: United Kingdom
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| Posted: 22-Sep-2005 16:59 Post subject: RE: Dawn Of The Jihad |
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On 2005-09-22 13:29, ralgith wrote:
I skipped most of the story so I could just blast the hell outta stuff
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As it should be.. If your after a plot, try mechcommander, lol
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Constant exposure to dangers will breed contempt for them-Seneca
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Delta
Lyran Alliance
Leutnant
Joined: 11-Dec-2004 00:00
Posts: 635
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| Posted: 22-Sep-2005 17:13 Post subject: RE: Dawn Of The Jihad |
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On 2005-09-22 05:29, Ruger wrote:
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On 2005-09-22 02:52, Mulkosaur wrote:
Just curious did WoB toss out and weapons of mass destruction? I figure if you can kick up enough chaos all you would have to do is sit back and watch everyone go for there age old enemies.
But how in the heck do you kick up enough chaos to the point everyone says screw it and pulls out there better dead list?
Mulk
(Zippy technically this is the end of the Battletech era most of us play in not the you know what.)
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Well, we know the following:
1) At least one regiment and a WarShip from the FWL attacks Skye, apparently including orbital bombardment...
2) Someone drops a few asteroids on Taurus...they blame the Davions...
3) In the midst of an attack by the Capellan March in the CC, which Yvonne continually sends out orders to stop or for an explanation, to which none are responded, a WarShip orbitally bombards Sian...the Davions have WarShips, therefore...
3) Tharkad is orbitally bombarded by the returned and under WoB control Invincible...however, the nuclear reactor under Tharkad City (IIRC?) goes into meltdown (supposedly by accident) at the same time...all communications with Tharkad are cut off...
4) The WoB controls multitudes of HPG's...control communications, and you control the flow of information...
5) Just prior to attacking, they broadcast to Atreus that "Thomas Marik" is a fake...
6) Destroy territory through the use of NBC's rather than trying to conquer it...
These are just some of the ways...
Ruger
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Seems like an awefully large amout of glassing...
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Mulkosaur
ComStar
Private, First Class
Joined: 09-Oct-2003 00:00
Posts: 27
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| Posted: 22-Sep-2005 20:31 Post subject: RE: Dawn Of The Jihad |
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Thanks Ruger that indeed is more than enough chaos to make the universe go mad.
mulk
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ralgith
Blighted Sun Battalion
1st Company
"Ralgith's Renegades"
Colonel
Joined: 18-Aug-2003 00:00
Posts: 2021
Location: United States
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| Posted: 23-Sep-2005 02:08 Post subject: RE: Dawn Of The Jihad |
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On 2005-09-22 16:59, Wanallo wrote:
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On 2005-09-22 13:29, ralgith wrote:
I skipped most of the story so I could just blast the hell outta stuff
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As it should be.. If your after a plot, try mechcommander, lol
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I have Mech Commander 2, but havent been able to play it. For some reason it wont play under Win XP, on desktop or laptop. Yet all 3 parts of MW4 work fine... (Veng, BK, and Mercs) as does MW3. Of course the MW2 games wont play.... but I DID have a windows 98 SE machine for them, currently down to just my laptop. I sold everything else when I was jobless for a bit. Back to work now, 10 friggin hours a night *poo*.
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Colonel Ralgith t'Mayasara
Blighted Sun Battalion
1st Company 'Ralgith's Renegades'
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Khayman
Blighted Sun Battalion
2nd Company
"Seraph's Slaughter"
Corporal
Joined: 14-Nov-2004 00:00
Posts: 91
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| Posted: 23-Sep-2005 07:26 Post subject: RE: Dawn Of The Jihad |
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While the whole Jihad thing doesn't make any sence when aplied to battletech, what makes me even more confused is the whole mercs attacking the wolf dragoons bit.
I know WacoRangers blame the dragoons for their losses and stuff, and I remember them trying to get a coalition of similiar units to fight against them, but that was in the past. They couldn't have done too much back then and I would think that they would do even less now. Just how many units were brought together to attack them because it sure as hell, better be a lot.
I mean the Dragoons have 5-7 regiments (including home guard and support assets) all within the vet to elite range. Planetary defenses or at least extremelly easily defendable positions. A decent fleet with Warship support. And there must have been at least a few other merc units on the planet that got caught up in this crazy mess. They would have probably been hired by the Dragoons to help out. And who would want to attack all that? The word of Blake must have bankrupted themselves paying such high cash in order to coerce them into such a dangerous goal.
Besides, the Dragoons have some allies or at least they should and this attack must have been some kind of warning to everyone else. Something like this isn't exactly everyday news.
Just my thoughts and questions since I don't touch any of that new stuff so I wouldn't know anything about how this and that happened.
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Warhammer: 3025
Freelance
Captain, AFFC (Ret.)
Joined: 29-Jan-2005 00:00
Posts: 1856
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| Posted: 23-Sep-2005 07:35 Post subject: RE: Dawn Of The Jihad |
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On 2005-09-23 07:26, Khayman wrote:
Besides, the Dragoons have some allies... |
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Like the Eridani Light Horse, just to name one.
The Dragoons field (according to Field Manual: Mercenaries) FIVE reinforced 'mech regiments, two independent reinforced line battalions, a fire-support 'mech regiment, and numerous armor regiments. Not to mention the Home Guard.
82 dropships, 300+ aerospace fighters, and several WARSHIPS stand between any attack force and the planet surface. Assuming anything even makes it through, they not only have to fight a very large, technologically advanced, fanatical, and elite mercenary force, they have to fight a very large, technologically advanced, fanatical, and elite mercenary force ON THEIR HOME PLANET.
[ This Message was edited by: Warhammer: 3025 on 2005-09-24 07:01 ]
_________________
Evil is like a bowl of oranges. Only one, instead, is an orange of DOOM. That orange has a fate to rule over the other oranges with an iron fist. That orange is me.
Because sometimes, there are many guards in the castle.
Ya Rl'yeh!
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Nightmare
Lyran Alliance
Kommandant-General
Joined: 03-May-2002 00:00
Posts: 2214
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| Posted: 23-Sep-2005 08:15 Post subject: RE: Dawn Of The Jihad |
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On 2005-09-23 07:35, Warhammer: 3025 wrote:
82 dropships, 300+ aerospace fighters, and several WARSHIPS stand between any attack force and the planet surface. Assuming anything even makes it through, they not only have to fight a very large, technologically advanced, fanatical, and elite mercenary force, they have to fight a very large, technologically advanced, fanatical, and elite mercenary force ON THEIR HOME PLANET.
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That's why you use underhanded tactics, infiltration and outright atrocity. That's also exactly why they had to go. A large force of elite troops sworn to defend the IS? With their own Warships and transports, no less? With only two jumps to Terra?
I sure as hell wouldn't be sorry to see them go even in character. Jealousy, anyone? They're cramping my style as a mercenary commander! Everyone's comparing units to the Dragoons, for some reason. And what are they? Certainly not mercenaries anymore! A planet, mech factories cranking out clan tech, Warships, their own intelligence service....
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A tree fall in the forest, and no one is around, and it hits a mime. Does anyone care?
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Kraken
Federated Suns
Marshal
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 2755
Location: United States
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| Posted: 23-Sep-2005 12:11 Post subject: RE: Dawn Of The Jihad |
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Personally speaking?
The more I hear about the Jihad the more it sounds like a giant plot-hole. I can understand the WoB trying to flex its muscles by taking out a few of the weaker planets (such as a campaign I was planning where they tried to take Caph so that they'd have a screen in case someone tried to re-take Terra).
However, the WoB would need incredible amounts of money, men, and material to do what people are saying they're going to do.
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"I wish I could write as mysterious as a cat." -Edgar Allen Poe"I knew there was something special about you, but I never realized you were really a cat." Wolfwood to a random cat (Trigun)
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Karagin
Imperial Karagin Army
Imperial General
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 4120
Location: United States
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| Posted: 23-Sep-2005 15:01 Post subject: RE: Dawn Of The Jihad |
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On 2005-09-19 21:27, Ruger wrote:
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On 2005-09-19 19:24, Rogue Penetrator wrote:
Good I was hoping they would release more information on the Jihad. I don't know if I like the idea of the Wolf Dragoons being wiped out though since I really don't see why the Word of Blake would focus on them first.
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That Dragoons weren't wiped out...a large percentage survived Outreach...of course, some of the surviving units later died assaulting Mars in retaliation, but enough survived that they are still around in the 3130 timeframe...
As for why hit them first? They are the ones that gathered together a coalition acting against the WoB in the Chaos March...take out your enemies at home first, then deal with the rest...
Ruger
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Another unrealistc action that doesn't make an sense and while I can see the Dragoons going after the WoB over the lose of family and such, I don't see them doing it recklessly.
But again the whole Jihad is done to have a clean slate for later on stuff so anything silly and totaly out of character seems to be the point of focus.
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Karagin
Only the dead have seen the end of war. - Plato
"Wasted trip Man. Nobody said nuthin' about lockin' horns with no tigers." Oddball
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Karagin
Imperial Karagin Army
Imperial General
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 4120
Location: United States
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| Posted: 23-Sep-2005 15:04 Post subject: RE: Dawn Of The Jihad |
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On 2005-09-23 12:11, Kraken wrote:
Personally speaking?
The more I hear about the Jihad the more it sounds like a giant plot-hole. I can understand the WoB trying to flex its muscles by taking out a few of the weaker planets (such as a campaign I was planning where they tried to take Caph so that they'd have a screen in case someone tried to re-take Terra).
However, the WoB would need incredible amounts of money, men, and material to do what people are saying they're going to do.
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Been saying that for years now...but then again TPTB state the WoB has Terra and the money skimmed from the FWL so they have all they need to pull of this plot and thus can do it all without anything stopping them.
Glad to see I am not the only one who questions the money end...too bad TPTB didn't realize folks would notice the cost and manpower issue as well as the lack of the WoB IS wide attacking being believable, but hey it's there to keep BT alive and moving forward or so they keep saying.
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Karagin
Only the dead have seen the end of war. - Plato
"Wasted trip Man. Nobody said nuthin' about lockin' horns with no tigers." Oddball
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Sleeping Dragon
Draconis Combine
Tai-i
Joined: 06-Apr-2005 00:00
Posts: 4820
Location: Czech Republic
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| Posted: 23-Sep-2005 15:43 Post subject: RE: Dawn Of The Jihad |
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With this I would think that whole mess with FWL military financing and logistics (sometimes in fluff, here and there (Shiva fighter I think, ...), is mentioned that FWL has problems with mysteriously disappeared omni pods or spare parts) was caused by Wobby Goblins sitting within whole bureaucratic apparatus of FWL. I never personally liked whole event and the more I hear about it, the more unbelievable it seems. Wob has armies to fight whole IS, Warship fleets, agents everywhere, and no one took notice. With all those intelligence services (Dragoons ComStar ROM, successor states, ...). I wonder how did WoB manage to hide it when ComStar had problems with hiding two Dante frigates back in 3025 era.
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The dragon NEVER sleeps!
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Karagin
Imperial Karagin Army
Imperial General
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 4120
Location: United States
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| Posted: 23-Sep-2005 23:00 Post subject: RE: Dawn Of The Jihad |
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According to what I have been told, one of the sidebars or media reported comments in the book tries to explain this by saying the intell folks are so busy spying on everyone else and dealing with those things to notice the WoB.
One would think House leadership and ComStar would be interested in planet system "willing" joining with the WoB and I am sure that the Dragoons didn't miss things, but wait...some how the Dragoons become a threat because they bring a bunch of mercs together and try to stablize the Chaos March...funny that only now are the Dragoons seen as threat, oh wait...weren't they seen as one a long time ago...how silly of them (TPTB) to have missed that or forgotten it.
Clearly the thing needed is a true sourcebook that explains things without the 5th grade level of thinking and gives it to us straight and with all of the facts so as not to leave things so out in left field. That way no can say anything was forgotten. Like the Dragoons are going to go charging off against Terra knowing about the SDS and the fact that they need to rebuild themselves, sorry but some how Mavie doesn't strike me as the kind of commader to allow that.
The same with whole money issue, some one would have pointed out this to their higher ups and someone would have done something or at least tried and more notice would have been made of it but then again the WoB and this whole plot line is the current golden child of the moment since it pushes things forward, lamely, but forward none the less.
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Karagin
Only the dead have seen the end of war. - Plato
"Wasted trip Man. Nobody said nuthin' about lockin' horns with no tigers." Oddball
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Ruger
Lyran Alliance
Hauptmann General
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 2093
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| Posted: 23-Sep-2005 23:15 Post subject: RE: Dawn Of The Jihad |
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On 2005-09-23 15:01, Karagin wrote:
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On 2005-09-19 21:27, Ruger wrote:
That Dragoons weren't wiped out...a large percentage survived Outreach...of course, some of the surviving units later died assaulting Mars in retaliation, but enough survived that they are still around in the 3130 timeframe...
As for why hit them first? They are the ones that gathered together a coalition acting against the WoB in the Chaos March...take out your enemies at home first, then deal with the rest...
Ruger
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Another unrealistc action that doesn't make an sense and while I can see the Dragoons going after the WoB over the lose of family and such, I don't see them doing it recklessly.
But again the whole Jihad is done to have a clean slate for later on stuff so anything silly and totaly out of character seems to be the point of focus.
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The Dragoons did not attack the WoB recklessly...they had intell, and they did not attack Earth...their intell simply didn't know about all the defenses around Mars, nor even hint that Mars would be important enough to warrant such defenses...as many other attacks have fallen victim to such errors in the past in the real world, I take no issue with it...
As for the rest...whatever...you can choose to ignore it or not at your leisure...you can choose to have whatever opinion of it you want...doesn't make that opinion true, but you are entitled to it...
Ruger
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Ruger
Lyran Alliance
Hauptmann General
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 2093
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| Posted: 23-Sep-2005 23:36 Post subject: RE: Dawn Of The Jihad |
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On 2005-09-23 12:11, Kraken wrote:
Personally speaking?
The more I hear about the Jihad the more it sounds like a giant plot-hole. I can understand the WoB trying to flex its muscles by taking out a few of the weaker planets (such as a campaign I was planning where they tried to take Caph so that they'd have a screen in case someone tried to re-take Terra).
However, the WoB would need incredible amounts of money, men, and material to do what people are saying they're going to do.
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Money: You do know they've been siphoning off 15% of the GNP of the FWL for the past 10 years right? This is in addition to whatever funds they get for HPG transmissions on those that they control...any personal funds of members...any donations made from other sources...taxes on worlds they control...hidden mines, etc. on planets or asteroids no one knows they have in uncharted systems....etc.
Oh, they have the cash...even if you took only 1 C-Bill from each citizen of the FWL for one year...that's still more than what? A few hundred billion or more? Multiply that by 10 years, plus alot more than just 1 C-Bill a person per year...
Men: You have litterally hundreds of thousands, if not millions of down on their luck people willing to do anything for a buck...think all mercs are the glitz and glamor of the Wolf's Dragoons or the Kell Hounds? No...most are like the Little Richard's Panzer Brigade or Wilson's Hussars of old...willing to do anything for a buck and often so far into debt that any job is worth it just to pay some of the bills....
Plus the billions on Terra and other planets they control...
Material: Hmm...some of the largest, most technologically advanced factories are under their control on Terra and Titan...resources with which to make stuff? There are litterally millions of systems out there that no one's explored...all those factories and stockpiles that Amaris and the Star League had that so many have forgotten over the years...etc....
But no one could hide such an army you say?
Think about the vastness of space...there are a lot of places to hide things just on Earth...and we're just a tiny proton in the vast galaxy...one planet orbiting one star in billions...
No...there is no problem hiding that force...
Also, a lot of people seem to think that the Word of Blake has developed some kind of massive force that is fighting a multi-front war to seize and hold territory...reread teh stuff over at the old INN site...reread what you know of the Jihad...the only territory they really fought and seized to hold was the area immediately around Terra and maybe a few other outlying worlds...most other places they hit, they bomb with NBC's or conventional weapons, leaving death and destruction in their wake...AND THEN MOVE ON...
Their goal is not to conquer...they don't have the manpower and resources to do that...their goal is to destroy and later help raise up as the saviours of mankind...
But take it as you will...
Ruger
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