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Knightrunner
Clan Snow Raven
Star Commander
Joined: 20-Jul-2005 00:00
Posts: 123
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 Posted: 11-Jan-2006 11:19 Post subject: Use of elementals |
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I was talking to my brother-in-law last night and we realized that we had never, apart from hidden ambush, seen battle armor used effectively.
I've used standard infantry in ambushes and static locations in cities, but have never used any battle armor other than standard elementals. They don't seem to do well outside very narrow defensive roles, even when deployed by speedy omnimechs.
Is there anyone who regularly uses battle armor in non-ambush scenarios? What do you do with it? Do you use standard elemental armor or the newer suits? What about zellbrigen?
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mud
Draconis Combine
Tai-sho
Joined: 23-Jul-2002 00:00
Posts: 1618
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| Posted: 11-Jan-2006 12:25 Post subject: RE: Use of elementals |
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Zell is a big problem with elementals.
They're excellent in an anti-infantry role, especially when packing M.G.s and its easy to adhere to zell in this situation.
They're also very good for area denial. Drop them into favorable terrain your enemy might want to occupy, and you've just made him either expend time and ammo clearing out the BA with long range weapons, or risk being swarmed.
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"The enemy's gate is down."
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Raven!
Clan Snow Raven
Galaxy Commander
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 1326
Location: United States
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| Posted: 11-Jan-2006 13:07 Post subject: RE: Use of elementals |
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i agree. I have used battle armor in conjunction with armored units (inner sphere that is) for very effective rushes and fire and manuver tactics. Some very powerful tanks only move 3/5 anyway, so you have a slow move forward, firing with battle armor hanging all over, and then a salvo of SRMs combined with tanks at flank speed to smash aside whatever defense remains. As long as you're not going toe to toe with battlemechs it is very effective.
In clan situations i've used the VTOL elemental very effectively with VTOLs. targeted bombing followed by infantry landing on you isn't fun.
Raven!
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Vagabond
Mercenary
Mr. Referee
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 5793
Location: United States
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| Posted: 11-Jan-2006 18:21 Post subject: RE: Use of elementals |
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i have used BA extensively in multi-unit battles. It always scares the piss out of my enemy and allows me to control a section of the map. they can be effective in moving battles IF their is enough terrain for them to manuver. otherwise, they are like an under armored assault with a pee shooter. they will slowly get picked apart.
Deploying BA on Omnis and as cargo in tanks is risky. During the turn you wish to deploy the infantry, your transport is highly vulnerable. in those few seconds, both units are pretty much out of involvement, and that is why i only ever use such a tactic when i need to get my BA to a spot quickly and it is a good distance away.
Of the tricks I have learned, this one rule rings true for BA: shoot and scoot in cover. Jump, jump, and jump some more. A BA unit should never sit in a hex if it can be fired on unless it is Hvy. Woods. You take no penalty for jumping, so do it every turn.
the next rule is this: while every mech warrior fears BA because the can swarm, it is not a very effective attack. instead, perform anti-mech leg attacks to cripple the mech. you will often reduce a mechs movement to the point that it cannot escape your BA or on occasions blow its leg off. Once a mech is crippled and unable to move then you swarm it. see story bellow.
the last rule that I can provide is this: BA like woods. BA hate woods on fire. unless you are using a Clan Salamander, which i love for this reason, your BA cannot survive in fire. It will not be abnormal for an opponet who is getting annoyed with your BA to start setting every nearby hex on fire so that your BA will no longer have cover.
My fav BA: Salamander, Infiltrator MKII, Clan BA MKII, and Kanzuchi.
Story: I was playing a multi-unit game with some friends via Megamek. They all had 'Mechs, but I choose a mixture of 'Mechs, Tanks, and BA. This story takes place abit into the game. I was battleing a friend when a second joined the frey. The battle was feirce and the player who joined the frey used a 'Mech to DFA either my 'Mech or my friends. So he declared during the move phase as is required and ended his movement within jump range of my BA. I attacked. Wanting to cripple him, I employed a leg attack that succeded. BLEW HIS LEG OFF! he as a result automatically failed his DFA and fell. SMASH! hit the ground and exploded.
it was like my infantry saw him on approach, jumped up to him and in mind air slapped a bomb on his leg, and then landed as in the background the bomb goes off and sends the mech summersaulting to the ground were it explodes.
Suffice it to say, my friend was not happy at all. they have pretty much baned my from using BA ever since then. It is not a rule, but they always run from me if i do use BA. my other friend, the first one i was fighting, he no longer lets me have fun. Once I cripple his mech, he ejects. I don't get to have fun swarming him anymore.
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one must work hard to cultivate the mind and body. and one must always cultivate the mind.
//^(^_^)^\\
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mud
Draconis Combine
Tai-sho
Joined: 23-Jul-2002 00:00
Posts: 1618
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| Posted: 11-Jan-2006 21:40 Post subject: RE: Use of elementals |
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Your BA can always kill the pilot though...that's even more fun 
_________________
"The enemy's gate is down."
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Warhammer: 3025
Freelance
Captain, AFFC (Ret.)
Joined: 29-Jan-2005 00:00
Posts: 1856
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| Posted: 12-Jan-2006 09:22 Post subject: RE: Use of elementals |
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Quote:
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On 2006-01-11 18:21, Vagabond wrote:
My fav BA: Salamander, Infiltrator MKII, Clan BA MKII, and Kanzuchi.
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And the Witch IV, Right?
Right?
[ This Message was edited by: Warhammer: 3025 on 2006-01-12 09:22 ]
_________________
Evil is like a bowl of oranges. Only one, instead, is an orange of DOOM. That orange has a fate to rule over the other oranges with an iron fist. That orange is me.
Because sometimes, there are many guards in the castle.
Ya Rl'yeh!
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Vagabond
Mercenary
Mr. Referee
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 5793
Location: United States
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| Posted: 12-Jan-2006 15:12 Post subject: RE: Use of elementals |
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i guess i should clarify then, my fav standard BA. the witch is my dream armor. we squeezed every last ounce of efficency out of that design and made it a real bastard to hit.
_________________
one must work hard to cultivate the mind and body. and one must always cultivate the mind.
//^(^_^)^\\
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Warhammer: 3025
Freelance
Captain, AFFC (Ret.)
Joined: 29-Jan-2005 00:00
Posts: 1856
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| Posted: 12-Jan-2006 18:47 Post subject: RE: Use of elementals |
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Quote:
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On 2006-01-12 15:12, Vagabond wrote:
i guess i should clarify then, my fav standard BA. the witch is my dream armor. we squeezed every last ounce of efficency out of that design and made it a real bastard to hit.
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Hooray! 
_________________
Evil is like a bowl of oranges. Only one, instead, is an orange of DOOM. That orange has a fate to rule over the other oranges with an iron fist. That orange is me.
Because sometimes, there are many guards in the castle.
Ya Rl'yeh!
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Knightrunner
Clan Snow Raven
Star Commander
Joined: 20-Jul-2005 00:00
Posts: 123
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| Posted: 13-Jan-2006 17:05 Post subject: RE: Use of elementals |
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Hmmm. Battle armor for area denial; kind of like living landmines. I can see it, but I don't think I'd publicize it to the troops. Somehow "Join the Battle Armor Corps so the enemy will have to waste time and ammo killing you!" isn't a stirring recruiting slogan.
They'd probably work quite well for area denial because, as noted, many mecharriors are very wary of elementals. They have a nasty reputation, hich I think is only partially deserved. A point of elementals versus a single mech seems unfair, unless in very dense terrain.
I've used fire for infantry removal a few times myself; I think it's actually more effective than a pair of machine guns against standard infantry. I've never used battle armor in conjunction ith vehicles; it sounds like they'd fare pretty well if teamed with a lance of Alacorns or the like.
What is the Witch IV? I'm not familiar ith that one.
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Warhammer: 3025
Freelance
Captain, AFFC (Ret.)
Joined: 29-Jan-2005 00:00
Posts: 1856
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| Posted: 13-Jan-2006 17:50 Post subject: RE: Use of elementals |
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Quote:
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On 2006-01-13 17:05, Knightrunner wrote:
What is the Witch IV? I'm not familiar ith that one.
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I linked it in my post. Scroll down to the last design on the page.
_________________
Evil is like a bowl of oranges. Only one, instead, is an orange of DOOM. That orange has a fate to rule over the other oranges with an iron fist. That orange is me.
Because sometimes, there are many guards in the castle.
Ya Rl'yeh!
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Vagabond
Mercenary
Mr. Referee
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 5793
Location: United States
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mud
Draconis Combine
Tai-sho
Joined: 23-Jul-2002 00:00
Posts: 1618
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| Posted: 13-Jan-2006 20:58 Post subject: RE: Use of elementals |
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As for the Alacorn matchup, I could see BA being used for shielding any fire support units. It's a variation on the area denial riff. Your enemy will be reluctant to try and swarm your LRM boats with light 'mechs if you're got the area covered with Elementals.
_________________
"The enemy's gate is down."
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Warhammer: 3025
Freelance
Captain, AFFC (Ret.)
Joined: 29-Jan-2005 00:00
Posts: 1856
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| Posted: 13-Jan-2006 21:20 Post subject: RE: Use of elementals |
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Say, did you ever write up any fluff for it?
_________________
Evil is like a bowl of oranges. Only one, instead, is an orange of DOOM. That orange has a fate to rule over the other oranges with an iron fist. That orange is me.
Because sometimes, there are many guards in the castle.
Ya Rl'yeh!
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Vagabond
Mercenary
Mr. Referee
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 5793
Location: United States
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| Posted: 13-Jan-2006 22:30 Post subject: RE: Use of elementals |
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i actually forgot about it. i'll have some by monday.
_________________
one must work hard to cultivate the mind and body. and one must always cultivate the mind.
//^(^_^)^\\
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SaberDance
Federated Suns
Colonel
Joined: 07-May-2004 00:00
Posts: 837
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| Posted: 14-Jan-2006 19:22 Post subject: RE: Use of elementals |
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In dueling I've never gotten much use out of battle armor.
Multi-unit action I've only gotten a little use.
Since my main battle tactics are mobility and range, BA isn't very useful (I know there are later ones that move pretty well, but the fastest armor I've ever used only moved 3 hexes, I think).
I've used them as flankers and scouts with some success.
The main benefit is numbers. The armor makes them slightly more survivable than jump-infantry, so a swarm and attack by armor can be as good as an attack by an equivalent cost mech.
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"Politics is the Art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, misdiagnosing the problem, and applying the wrong solution."
-Groucho Marx
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