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Warhammer: 3025
Freelance
Captain, AFFC (Ret.)
Joined: 29-Jan-2005 00:00
Posts: 1856
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 Posted: 09-Dec-2006 17:20 Post subject: RE: PS3: Flop of Fly? |
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On 2006-12-09 14:09, SaberDance wrote:
And Nintendo hasn't had a financial flop in it's history. Even DS and Gameboy advance eventually caught on.
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Virtual Boy.
_________________
Evil is like a bowl of oranges. Only one, instead, is an orange of DOOM. That orange has a fate to rule over the other oranges with an iron fist. That orange is me.
Because sometimes, there are many guards in the castle.
Ya Rl'yeh!
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Vagabond
Mercenary
Mr. Referee
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 5788
Location: United States
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| Posted: 10-Dec-2006 16:34 Post subject: RE: PS3: Flop of Fly? |
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Screw Macs. Anything a Mac can do, a PC can do. Video editing and sound editing software are available for both. A REAL enthusiast knows a MAC is an overpriced, underpowered piece of crap. If you are REALLY an enthusiast, you build your own PC for 1/4 the price and have a much better more effecient machine.
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And can you say this from experience or just as an spoon feed opinion? My friend is a video editor and is often editing this video or that video. He has had both a PC and a MAC and from his experience there is a very good reason why schools and companies that are doing heavy video editing have MACs.... they have a better video editing package.
Yes, the PC can do the same job but at a gross disadvantage. Do to the strict guidelines of Apple the MAC and all accompaning video editing software are more stable, more consistent, and far more efficent. The lead PC video editing software Premier [sp?] is very flexable and has great functionality and feature; however, it also crashes often or freezes mid render. My friend can edit for hours on his MAC without an issue while if he did the same on the PC he would freeze atleast once per session if not more. And this was while doing the same type of function on both machines.
So before you go bashing MACs, i ask you to get abit more information beyond: MAC bad, PC good.
Vagabond - the PC only supporter
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one must work hard to cultivate the mind and body. and one must always cultivate the mind.
//^(^_^)^\\
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Talen
Capellan Confederation
Sang-shao
Joined: 05-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 1269
Location: United States
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| Posted: 10-Dec-2006 20:48 Post subject: RE: PS3: Flop of Fly? |
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Harsh.
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"Historians exercise great power and some of them know it. They recreate the past, changing it to fit their own interpretations. Thus, they change the future as well." - Leto II
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Talen
Capellan Confederation
Sang-shao
Joined: 05-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 1269
Location: United States
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| Posted: 10-Dec-2006 21:04 Post subject: RE: PS3: Flop of Fly? |
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I can't and wont argue consumer numbers, but those numbers dont tell the full truth like how many of those PS2s were sold to repeat customers replaceing a defective systems, etc.
One thing to realize is that much of how well a system dominates a market has nothing to do sales numbers. The key stuff to look at is who developers favor, why, who consumers favor, why and a few other key points.
1) Who do developers favor? In the Next Gen war, Developers currently favor Microsoft. The system is slightly easier to develope for and right now its the system more people have. That means for money for dev's. Most dev's say the PS3 and 360 are equal in power.
2) Who do consumers favor? In the US, at least in the numbers I have seen on IGN, Gamespot, GameRankings and within my own company (both information releases and my own experience in store), more people want the 360.
Why? I assume because of the cost, and the instant library availability. I do get more and more customers wanting the Wii than the PS3 or 360 right now though. Nintendo seems to have struck it lucky with the Wii, despite a lackluster launch library.
Other factors?
game sell-through. Gamestop reported over the launch weeks of both h PS3 and Wii that the PS3 only had a 1.5 game sell through. The Wii had a 3. 360 in 2005 had around a 2 I think.
Another factor is re-sell. Something like 15-25% of people asked reported they wee probably going to re-sell the PS3 and didnt care about it themselves. Signifigantly less for the Wii and 360 (i dont have the actual numbers right now)
I think if you actually looked into the gaming news around you'd see very few people actually favoring the PS3. Until Capcom, Square and Konami get invloved with some major releases it;ll stay that way.
_________________
"Historians exercise great power and some of them know it. They recreate the past, changing it to fit their own interpretations. Thus, they change the future as well." - Leto II
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Talen
Capellan Confederation
Sang-shao
Joined: 05-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 1269
Location: United States
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| Posted: 10-Dec-2006 21:10 Post subject: RE: PS3: Flop of Fly? |
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Personal experience. My friends and I did music videos for a band and some for ourselves. We used Premiere and almost never had any problems. it did crash once on startup, but never while rendering and we never lost any data.
I have used Macs for the same job and used garage band as well. i didnt see much of a reliabilty or performance boost over the Pro Tools on MAC over Pro Tools on PC. At least, i nevr saw enough of a reason to have a $1500- $2000 mac for it vs a much more powerful $1500 PC that i put together myself that is also useful for everything else.
_________________
"Historians exercise great power and some of them know it. They recreate the past, changing it to fit their own interpretations. Thus, they change the future as well." - Leto II
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SaberDance
Federated Suns
Colonel
Joined: 07-May-2004 00:00
Posts: 837
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| Posted: 12-Dec-2006 12:18 Post subject: RE: PS3: Flop of Fly? |
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So much to talk about...
First, Virtual Boy, good point. I'd never heard of it, it was such a flop. I could argue that no one else could do it either, but that's still weak. So, Nintendo has had one market flop. Which is still not bad, given that it's the oldest of the still existing brands.
Second, short Micro-econ lesson which only people who take economics courses should already know: since each product in a market has a different supply and demand curve, the proper measure of market share is units moved. If people have to buy multiple units to get one that works, and people are willing to do it, that still counts to increase market share. Several reasons why this might be: inelasticity (all my games are PS! I can't start over on an X-Box!), Loyalty (Well, PS has always been good in the past, this must have been a fluke), or availability (well, nuts, they're out of 360s, I'll just have to replace the PS2 again).
For reasons already advanced, I think PS3 has run aground on many of these issues, and I think Nintendo Wii has room to capitalize on Loyalty and Inelasticity (read, Zelda).
Third, continuing the Micro-econ: It is possible to have a large market share, and go out of business. It is possible to have a small market share and be the most profitable business. This is how sports car companies stay in business, and how oldsmobile went out of business (lots of cars, all sold at a loss). Now, if the market is hardware and games (which it usually isn't, because then we have to bring in computers, which expands the market way too much), then the curves change. But games are a different market, and not what I'm talking about. If I really feel the urge, I'll look further into that.
In this market, though, PS3 is in real trouble, and Sony is going to lose a lot of share to Microsoft and Nintendo. (my prediction, they'll split the market 40, 30, 30, Sony, Microsoft, Nintendo, with a few percentage points error towards Microsoft). I suspect this will bring up the game sales of Microsoft and Nintendo, regardless of how many companies are involved, the same way that distributing free razors let Schick drive the straight blade out of existence.
That Nintendo makes profit from the start just means that it is harder to drive Nintendo from the market, and there is no perversity in their supply curve (an incentive to produce less, because they are losing money.)
In summary, Nintendo is limited only by its supply and demand curve, and its market share reflects this. Microsoft and Sony are additionally constrained by their profit curves. Their manufacturing ability may be great (or not), but they have an interest in not meeting full demand, because it might cost them out of business.
Therefore, Sony and Microsoft will cede a larger market share to Nintendo, and make up the difference in another market (games).
Fourth, Continuation of the short, micro-economics lesson, which is really obscure: My bringing up the Mac, PC was not an attempt to start an argument. Steve Jobs is a litteral text-book example of what I discussed above. (litteral, as in, I've got the textbook on my shelf.) Jobs was so determined to maximize his market share at the expense of profit (and to embarass Apple, which had de facto fired him), that he competed with IBM in an unrelated market (software). This got him dragged into an anti-trust lawsuit with IBM (the same lawsuit Microsoft faced a decade later).
Jobs won, IBM lost. Microsoft was born. Jobs refused to work with Microsoft because it was associated with IBM. Years later, IBM PCs are the market standard, Bill Gates is rich, and Jobs has a really nice movie studio.
What I was suggesting, was that Bill Gates would be wise to follow his last pattern, and not try to freeze out Nintendo (opening him up to another anti-trust lawsuit), and possibly missing out on the next-big-thing.
Microsoft seems to be doing this when they suggest "buy a Wii, and with the left-over money, buy a 360 too."
OK, sorry for the long post. I've got finals, thesis, and traveling in the next weeks. Have fun, Merry Christmas, Happy Holidays, see you after New Years unless I get a good internet connection sooner.
_________________
"Politics is the Art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, misdiagnosing the problem, and applying the wrong solution."
-Groucho Marx
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Warhammer: 3025
Freelance
Captain, AFFC (Ret.)
Joined: 29-Jan-2005 00:00
Posts: 1856
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| Posted: 13-Dec-2006 00:46 Post subject: RE: PS3: Flop of Fly? |
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A well-reasoned post. Bravo. 
_________________
Evil is like a bowl of oranges. Only one, instead, is an orange of DOOM. That orange has a fate to rule over the other oranges with an iron fist. That orange is me.
Because sometimes, there are many guards in the castle.
Ya Rl'yeh!
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WhizzbangThePowerSquig
Royal Black Watch Regiment
Master Sergeant
Joined: 21-Mar-2005 00:00
Posts: 345
Location: Canada
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| Posted: 14-Dec-2006 10:21 Post subject: RE: PS3: Flop of Fly? |
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Wow, when I first started this post I had no idea the debate that was going to arise
I did some number crunching earlier, and found these according to TRU Canada
XB360 (core, bundles, etc): slightly over 9000 units have been recieved and/or sold
Wii: Slightly over 7000 units
PS3 (20 and 60 gb versions): around 1500
I find it very impressive that the Wii has sold almost as many units as 360 less than a month.
As another funny note, one of the guys I play World of Warcraft with got a PS3, and was completely unsatisfied with it. He's thinking of selling it, and maybe buying one again in a year or so.
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All fear Squiggy!
"I've never seen anything this beautiful in the entire galaxy - okay, give me the bomb." - Ultra Magnus
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Talen
Capellan Confederation
Sang-shao
Joined: 05-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 1269
Location: United States
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| Posted: 20-Dec-2006 13:31 Post subject: Just a fun addition to the discussion |
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Working at Gamestop, I am witness to quite a few funny things such as this:
Yesterday UPS came, and along with it, the usual crowd of people looking for Wii's. We didn't get any. We did get 2 of the 60 gig PS3s though. We announced it in store that we got them, nobody flinched.
I went into the main corridor of the mall, shouted that we had two PS3s, tons of people glanced. Nobody came to the store. My manager walked around and did the same thing...nobody came.
Everybody that came into the store, we told them...no one cared and all asked for the Wii.
They finally sold after two hours. This is in contrast to the 6 selling in an hour last Friday and 9 Wii's selling within seconds as we opened the door.
On Ebay, PS3s are not moving. They are selling at Price or slightly above with games. Most are offering free shipping. hard to find just a Wii, but they are on there, at double and triple price.
None of this means anything...its just funny.
_________________
"Historians exercise great power and some of them know it. They recreate the past, changing it to fit their own interpretations. Thus, they change the future as well." - Leto II
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Talen
Capellan Confederation
Sang-shao
Joined: 05-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 1269
Location: United States
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| Posted: 27-Dec-2006 14:25 Post subject: Gamespot Graphics Comparrison (360/PS3) |
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Here is a cool segment from Gamespot where they compare several games on the 360 to the PS3.
Remember, this is the PS3's first season...so give it a little love.
http://www.gamespot.com/features/6162742/index.html
_________________
"Historians exercise great power and some of them know it. They recreate the past, changing it to fit their own interpretations. Thus, they change the future as well." - Leto II
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Warhammer: 3025
Freelance
Captain, AFFC (Ret.)
Joined: 29-Jan-2005 00:00
Posts: 1856
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| Posted: 28-Dec-2006 01:15 Post subject: RE: Gamespot Graphics Comparrison (360/PS3) |
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Quote:
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On 2006-12-27 14:25, Talen wrote:
Remember, this is the PS3's first season...so give it a little love.
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No. I have no reason at all to cut Sony any kind of slack.
_________________
Evil is like a bowl of oranges. Only one, instead, is an orange of DOOM. That orange has a fate to rule over the other oranges with an iron fist. That orange is me.
Because sometimes, there are many guards in the castle.
Ya Rl'yeh!
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Talen
Capellan Confederation
Sang-shao
Joined: 05-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 1269
Location: United States
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| Posted: 28-Dec-2006 05:49 Post subject: RE: Gamespot Graphics Comparrison (360/PS3) |
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yeah...me neither really.
_________________
"Historians exercise great power and some of them know it. They recreate the past, changing it to fit their own interpretations. Thus, they change the future as well." - Leto II
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WhizzbangThePowerSquig
Royal Black Watch Regiment
Master Sergeant
Joined: 21-Mar-2005 00:00
Posts: 345
Location: Canada
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| Posted: 08-Jan-2007 11:00 Post subject: RE: Gamespot Graphics Comparrison (360/PS3) |
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Did you know that Ridge Racer 7 (as an example), to start to turn a proffit, has to sell at least 500,000 copies world wide.
There are not 500,000 PS3 units world wide.
And people wonder why developers are jumping ship...
And yeah, the TRU where I work has been sitting on about 6 PS3s for almost 2 weeks. Nobody cares.
_________________
All fear Squiggy!
"I've never seen anything this beautiful in the entire galaxy - okay, give me the bomb." - Ultra Magnus
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Talen
Capellan Confederation
Sang-shao
Joined: 05-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 1269
Location: United States
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| Posted: 08-Jan-2007 22:03 Post subject: RE: Gamespot Graphics Comparrison (360/PS3) |
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Not to be a detail asshole, but...
"Competitors Sony and Microsoft saw similarly successful holidays in 2006. Sony's new PlayStation 3 is assumed to have sold around 700,000 units, while Lazard Capital predicts that Microsoft's Xbox 360 will have just reached 4.5 million consoles in North America by December 30."
(Source, IGN)
But, yeah. I see what you're getting at. Whats really pathetic is that Ridge Racer, being a terrible series, is hugely popular in the land of the Rising Sun. Not so much here. Here we are addicted and spoiled by decent racing games...and even our shitty arcade style racers are better than Ridge Racer. Oh...at GameStop we had a joke about PS3 Exclusives, specifally Full Auto 2. For some reason that team jumped to PS3 exclusive. Sales for Full Auto were probably one of the lowest selling 360 games of the year...so we laughed. A lot.
_________________
"Historians exercise great power and some of them know it. They recreate the past, changing it to fit their own interpretations. Thus, they change the future as well." - Leto II
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Warhammer: 3025
Freelance
Captain, AFFC (Ret.)
Joined: 29-Jan-2005 00:00
Posts: 1856
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| Posted: 08-Jan-2007 22:33 Post subject: RE: Gamespot Graphics Comparrison (360/PS3) |
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Next-Gen believes (as stated in several of their most recent podcasts) that we may see the end of third-party exclusive titles entirely (or at least a very drastic reduction in their number).
_________________
Evil is like a bowl of oranges. Only one, instead, is an orange of DOOM. That orange has a fate to rule over the other oranges with an iron fist. That orange is me.
Because sometimes, there are many guards in the castle.
Ya Rl'yeh!
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