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innersphere3050
Federated Suns
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 Posted: 30-Jun-2013 16:16 Post subject: Thoughts on the future of the assault mech |
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I have had this question for a while and wanted to get some feedback. After tech readout 3075, most of the new weapons and equipment seems to favor the smaller faster mechs. It has become quite easy to rush an assault mech (even with a single small mech), lights and mediums can run 10+ hexes or jump 7+ and still carry a decent array of weapons. So even before taking into account terrain or assault mech movement the minimu to hit roll is 8 (Assuming short range here). When terrain and assault mech movement are accounted for this number goes up to 10+ usually.
Many of these lights and mediums can now take a hit from the primary assault mech weapons system and if they have reflective armor it mitigates any pulse laser damage. Many of these mechs are so fast and mobile that they can only come into LOS when they win the initiative.
There are also a number of stealth systems that these mechs can mount to make them even harder to hit.
I remember the days when using at jenner and a locust to try and stop an Atlas was a challenge. Now it is much harder to be the assault because it is nearly impossible to keep a light/medium from getting behind you. I would like to see a new targeting a tracking system to help rebalance this by decreasing the to hit roll when tracking fast moving targets. Any thoughts or opinions?
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Sleeping Dragon
Draconis Combine
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| Posted: 30-Jun-2013 17:04 Post subject: Thoughts on the future of the assault mech |
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Precision AC ammo ignores 2 points of target movement modifier and is compatible with TC.
You can still use LB-X guns and good pilots as well. Artillery and mines can be quite deadly. They are not targeting the unit necessarily.
Reflective armour also suffers double damage from projectile weapons with AP ammo as well as from area effect weapons.
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Karagin
Imperial Karagin Army
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| Posted: 30-Jun-2013 22:00 Post subject: Thoughts on the future of the assault mech |
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In one on one battles the assaults have always had a hard time stopping lights from getting behind them, but that is not a common thing in lance on lance fights or even two on two.
A lot of the new tech seems geared for a return the to one map slug feast and favors the new players or the ones who still recall the computer games as the way to play the board game, and rush into medium to short range blast each other to death.
The assault mechs aren't going the way of the dodo bird anytime.
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Only the dead have seen the end of war. - Plato
"Wasted trip Man. Nobody said nuthin' about lockin' horns with no tigers." Oddball
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innersphere3050
Federated Suns
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Location: United States
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| Posted: 05-Jul-2013 11:57 Post subject: Thoughts on the future of the assault mech |
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I agree that the TC is becoming close to a must have on many large slow mechs. Precision ammo and LB-X ACs are ok, but I am not a big autocannon guy outside of the AC 10s. I find the AC 2s and even the 5s just can't do enough damage to justify their tonnage and ammo requirements and if you have an AC 20 and are in a slow mech it is very difficult to get into range and you probably aren't going to hit anything other than another assault at long range.
I like the precision AC 10 ammo, but most mechs don't carry enough ammo and the LB cluster shots need to be coupled with a weapon with a punch to reach the internal structure in a reasonable time frame which is part of the original problem
We typically do not play with them, but do you guys use TC warheads in your games? Seems with those you need to mount reactive or hardened armor
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Sleeping Dragon
Draconis Combine
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| Posted: 05-Jul-2013 15:06 Post subject: Thoughts on the future of the assault mech |
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Haehm, standard ACs of lighter than AC/10 are not normally meant to act as main weapons for anything above 35 tons, unless you field them en-masse. They are, however, good backup for energy weapons. They add up damage at range without bothering your heat dissipation. You can mix them up with almost any firing pattern and they are fine to fire when your engine is breached.
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innersphere3050
Federated Suns
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| Posted: 07-Jul-2013 15:56 Post subject: Thoughts on the future of the assault mech |
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| wrote: | | In one on one battles the assaults have always had a hard time stopping lights from getting behind them |
Agreed, but now they light has the firepower to disable an assault in 1-2 rounds and more armor and is therefore harder to kill
[quote]A lot of the new tech seems geared for a return the to one map slug feast and favors the new players or the ones who still recall the computer games as the way to play the board game, and rush into medium to short range blast each other to death. | wrote: |
Yes I agree and continuing to handicap long range weapons with minimum ranges is not helping this |
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innersphere3050
Federated Suns
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| Posted: 07-Jul-2013 16:10 Post subject: Thoughts on the future of the assault mech |
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| wrote: | | Haehm, standard ACs of lighter than AC/10 are not normally meant to act as main weapons for anything above 35 tons, unless you field them en-masse |
They certainly shouldn't be. Unfortunately, some designers such as the designers of the Atlas in the Fed Suns TRO 3145 seem to think the RAC 2 should be a main weapon
AC's precision ammo was brought up as a way to ease the to hit roll when attacking a light. But this gets back to the original problem of AC 2's and 5's not dealing enough damage and the 20 not having the range.
You are incredibly unlikely to hit a light with multiple high tonnage weapons so you need to hit with something that will make your shot count. The snub nose PPC is probably the best weapon because of the large short range, unless they have reflective armor
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Karagin
Imperial Karagin Army
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| Posted: 07-Jul-2013 16:25 Post subject: Thoughts on the future of the assault mech |
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I don't disagree that the new tech allows the lights to fight back, BUT the new tech doesn't stop tactical thinking. I have seen too many folks be awed by the uber tech wonders and forget basic tactics.
The same tech the lights have so do the assault mechs, so it becomes a matter of what do you want in your force, all lights that can still die from a couple of hits, or the big bad assault mechs that slug it out?
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Only the dead have seen the end of war. - Plato
"Wasted trip Man. Nobody said nuthin' about lockin' horns with no tigers." Oddball
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Sleeping Dragon
Draconis Combine
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| Posted: 08-Jul-2013 00:00 Post subject: Thoughts on the future of the assault mech |
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Don't forget that speed and firepower on light 'Mechs is usually bought at the price of XL engine, which means that for IS machines you only need to demolish one location. Unless you have hardened armour you are still suspectible to single gauss rifle or AC/20 opening your body and criting something, possibly slowing you down. Side torsoes and legs at 35 tons have 8 points IS, so there are 24 points total, usually much less. Central torso packs 11 points IS, so total 33 points, but mostly even that isn't full. It still mostly wethers only one solid hit from typical 'Mech killing weapon. If the assault engages you in open terrain, then getting behind it won't be a problem, but otherwise you are in trouble as terrain will slow you down to manageable numbers. Improved JJs are fine, but they also weight something, which makes them more medium 'Mech thing, that in turn are not so good when caught in the open.
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innersphere3050
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| Posted: 19-Jul-2013 22:17 Post subject: Thoughts on the future of the assault mech |
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Definitely have to be more cautious with a lance of mechs and space them properly and take advantage of weapon ranges to prevent the quick mechs from carving you up.
I just feel the to hit rolls are so high on when attacking these mechs that run 10+/jump 7+ they are at a huge advantage. And even the new heavy direct fire weapons that can cause serious damage in one shot still have minimum ranges or short ranges.
Of course it depends on the situation, a light isn't going to hold the line and if forced to attack it loses its advantages but in an open battle it is fairly easy to only attack when you win the initiative. It has taken some of the thought out of moving your light around. A little harder to use a stereotypically slow assault (3/5) now because there are so many speedy mechs and mechs with improved jump jets and the 3/5 mech is fairly easy to hit
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Sleeping Dragon
Draconis Combine
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| Posted: 20-Jul-2013 04:24 Post subject: Thoughts on the future of the assault mech |
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Assault 'Mechs are mostly not meant to act as main combat machines. That's what heavies and faster assaults are meant to do. Slower 'Mechs are either meant to attack heavily fortified positions where you simply can't easily avoid danger, or to harvest henemies in massive melee where you have nowhere to escape. In fast moving skirmish they are out of their waters, but where companies and support vehicles will grind against each other they will show their true worth.
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innersphere3050
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| Posted: 21-Jul-2013 17:19 Post subject: Thoughts on the future of the assault mech |
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| Agreed. But I still think most of the new tech is geared towards the lights (reflective armor for example, can't mount this on an assault too easy to kick, too many PSRs)
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Sleeping Dragon
Draconis Combine
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| Posted: 21-Jul-2013 18:08 Post subject: Thoughts on the future of the assault mech |
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Nah, lights and mediums with nasty bites going after assault's butt have always been there. Heavies can go for hardened and improved AC ammo and missile munitions will also benefit them more than lights.
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