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Karagin
Imperial Karagin Army
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 Posted: 27-Aug-2014 22:59 Post subject: To Paint or Not To Paint? |
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Does Painting matter?
Here is a link ( chicagoskirmish.blogspot.com/2014/08/painting-matters-in-defense-of-hobby.html#comment-form )
Which the author says it does matter. I counter this with it doesn't matter if it takes away from the fun and enjoyment of the hobby or game, but I would like to hear what you folks say on the matter.
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Karagin
Only the dead have seen the end of war. - Plato
"Wasted trip Man. Nobody said nuthin' about lockin' horns with no tigers." Oddball
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Emmy
Clan Wolf
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| Posted: 28-Aug-2014 03:26 Post subject: To Paint or Not To Paint? |
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I would have to disagree with the author. Painted minis add a lot to the look of the game and when done well (by that I mean when neither player is a jerk about it) I think they add to the fun of the game but in the end they are not the game. The person with primer coated minis and the person with expertly painted minis may be at the same skill level, and in the end wargaming is about gaming, not painting.
Some of the comparisons I don't think fit well, either. Cars, for example. "If you're a part of a car club, but don't paint or keep your car up, you're going to be viewed differently." and "If you're content to repeatedly bring your Bondo-patched Camaro to the car show, that's your choice, but don't expect the same degree of esteem and approval from your fellow enthusiasts." are both quite true, but if you are going to use the car example wargaming is more like racing then showing and it doesn't matter if the fastest car is plain or even damaged as long as it is still the fastest.
Of course there is a hierarchy and standards, but those are based on your skill in the game, not your skill outside the game.
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Vagabond
Mercenary
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| Posted: 28-Aug-2014 03:40 Post subject: To Paint or Not To Paint? |
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I disagree with pretty much the whole article.
Wargamming is about playing war games. It is about your skill in tactics and strategy combined with a bit of luck. This is where the hierarchy exists: skill. You veteran players are your upper tiers with the masters above them and journeymen and novice players below. Your hierarchy is in how good a player is at playing and winning them game. Just as in cheese and Go.
What he is talking about is not ability to play wargames, but your skill in painting and modeling. That is an entirely different category with its own hierarchy. You can be a master modeler and be a novice wargammer.
They are two separate items that share a common space. I have neither the money nor the time to model and paint terrain and miniatures and these ignorant are going to say I am less of a wargammer because of it. I have grey plastic mechs because I cannot easily afford to paint them well, but I am a damn good player.
Sorry no. And using the example of a car club carries the same error. A person can have a primer grey car that is the fastest car at the meet. This person is a mechanics/engineering wizard and has the best engine and drive system of any there. Does the fact that his car is grey negate the fact that his car is the fastest? different categories.
These guys are just elitists who decided that they dislike unpainted miniatures and are now trying to rationalize that decision.
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Mordel
Mordel.Net
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| Posted: 02-Sep-2014 17:55 Post subject: To Paint or Not To Paint? |
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Definitely disagree, as Emmy and Vagabond have. I have some painted minis (that I had to pay for since I don't have the skill), but most of the time we play with proxies or even far less. Heck, in our D&D game I play with chihawk I use a d4 for my mini and it doesn't take away from the game at all.
By this authors logic a player with painted minis but not a full to-scale 3d terrain board is inferior as well.
I can assure you this is someone I wouldn't choose to play with, and if I had to at a convention would look at with pity.
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chihawk
Clan Blood Spirit
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| Posted: 03-Sep-2014 15:47 Post subject: To Paint or Not To Paint? |
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Mordel and I have a buddy Mike (who very infrequently posts here as Horhiro) who has the most amazing 3D maps and at least one of just about every single mini ever released for the game painted...in many cases he has multiples of each in different paint schemes. He'd be the first say you could have just as much fun if all you had was spare change for proxy markers and a paper hex grid.
For me the best part of gaming is the people you're with, painted minis or not.
(And I like that Mordel uses a d4 as his marker in my D&D campaign...it shows the exact spot I want to center my fireball.  )
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Stinger
The Knights of Chaos
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| Posted: 06-Sep-2014 16:03 Post subject: To Paint or Not To Paint? |
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Wow, the author of that article comes across pretty douchie. I have played with beautifully painted mini's to cardboard placeholders. I have used mini's that have been purchased and glued together at the check stand and were on the battlefield still drying. Never would i say you have to use mini's that i will judge "acceptable" only. I agree with Mordel, i wouldn't choose to play with them.
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Stinger
If it's "creepy" to use the Internet, military satellites, and robot aircraft to find a house full of gorgeous young models so I can drop in on them unexpected, then FINE, I'm "creepy". Howard Wolowitz. BBT.
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Vagabond
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| Posted: 06-Sep-2014 22:58 Post subject: To Paint or Not To Paint? |
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this is interesting.
I have noticed a significant trend (non-statical) on this topic.
I posted this link and my exact response on facebook in two different groups: battletech and miniatures wargaming.
The BT guys responded almost exactly as people have here. An overwhelming, no it doesn't matter.
The mini's guys, almost the polar opposite. More there said it didn't matter then did people at the BT sight say it did matter, but the overwhelming response was that painting is a critical component of the hobby.
The scientist in me wonders as to the why?
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one must work hard to cultivate the mind and body. and one must always cultivate the mind.
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Karagin
Imperial Karagin Army
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| Posted: 07-Sep-2014 10:33 Post subject: To Paint or Not To Paint? |
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I think for some they want things to look completed and ready to show off all the glory of the world they are playing in.
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Karagin
Only the dead have seen the end of war. - Plato
"Wasted trip Man. Nobody said nuthin' about lockin' horns with no tigers." Oddball
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Mordel
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| Posted: 08-Sep-2014 23:58 Post subject: To Paint or Not To Paint? |
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Because some people need to feel like they are better. If they have the skill to paint then they will throw that in your face. It makes them feel important.
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Vagabond
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| Posted: 09-Sep-2014 01:36 Post subject: Re: To Paint or Not To Paint? |
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| Mordel wrote: | | Because some people need to feel like they are better. If they have the skill to paint then they will throw that in your face. It makes them feel important. |
i'd accept that as the explanation if most of the people defending grey armies on the BT side did not post all sorts of images of their great paint jobs.
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Karagin
Imperial Karagin Army
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| Posted: 09-Sep-2014 05:28 Post subject: To Paint or Not To Paint? |
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For those who can paint and are not throwing it into everyone's faces they are doing the right thing in defending those who play the game with unpainted miniatures. It should not be about the level of ones' painting skill, but how they play the game.
As has been said, you can be the best painter in the world, but not the best player.
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Karagin
Only the dead have seen the end of war. - Plato
"Wasted trip Man. Nobody said nuthin' about lockin' horns with no tigers." Oddball
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Vagabond
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| Posted: 09-Sep-2014 08:49 Post subject: Re: To Paint or Not To Paint? |
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| Karagin wrote: | For those who can paint and are not throwing it into everyone's faces they are doing the right thing in defending those who play the game with unpainted miniatures. It should not be about the level of ones' painting skill, but how they play the game.
As has been said, you can be the best painter in the world, but not the best player. |
agreed.
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