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Stinger
The Knights of Chaos
General
Joined: 30-Apr-2002 00:00
Posts: 1833
Location: United States
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 Posted: 03-Nov-2014 00:37 Post subject: Small dropship question. or shuttle craft. |
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So I have been looking at converting a shuttle craft. But I am unclear what construction rule set I should be using. are shuttle craft build using aerospace fighter rules. or are they built using small DropShip rules.
I would also want it to be 300 tons or less, but would really want it more as a personnel transport.
My other question is small drop ships, do they dock in the small craft bay? or do they have to use a docking collar? The rules seems a bit ambiguous about it, and I am hoping for a little clarification.
_________________
Stinger
If it's "creepy" to use the Internet, military satellites, and robot aircraft to find a house full of gorgeous young models so I can drop in on them unexpected, then FINE, I'm "creepy". Howard Wolowitz. BBT.
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Vagabond
Mercenary
Mr. Referee
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 5792
Location: United States
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| Posted: 03-Nov-2014 10:27 Post subject: Re: Small dropship question. or shuttle craft. |
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| Stinger wrote: | So I have been looking at converting a shuttle craft. But I am unclear what construction rule set I should be using. are shuttle craft build using aerospace fighter rules. or are they built using small DropShip rules.
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It depends upon the size of your "shuttlecraft" which ruleset you use. up to 100 tons uses aerofighter, 100 to 200 tons use small craft rules, and 200+ tons use dropships. All of these units rule types begin on TM pg180.
| wrote: |
I would also want it to be 300 tons or less, but would really want it more as a personnel transport.
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All aerospace units may carry transport bays (TM p239) while small craft and dropships can utilize crew quarters (TM p236).
| wrote: |
My other question is small drop ships, do they dock in the small craft bay? or do they have to use a docking collar? The rules seems a bit ambiguous about it, and I am hoping for a little clarification. |
If it masses between 100 and 200 tons, it uses a small craft bay. 200+ tons it docks to a docking collar.
TW p.85: Small craft and fighters may take off (called launching while airborne) and land (called recovering while airborne) on an airborne Large Craft that is equipped with a small craft or fighter bay.
SO p.66: Two Large Craft can attempt to dock, linking airlocks (such as bay doors) or docking adapters.
TW p.20: “Large Craft” is a general description used to refer to any aerospace unit that weighs more than two hundred tons.
TM p.180: Small Craft range from 100 to 200 tons in weight (increasing in 5-ton increments), and may operate in atmosphere or in space.
TM p.239: Small Craft (per Cubicle) 200 tons NA (‘Mech) / 1 (Vehicle) 1 Small Craft (up to 200 tons).
Note: an aerofighter may also utilize a smallcraft bay.
hope this helps.
_________________
one must work hard to cultivate the mind and body. and one must always cultivate the mind.
//^(^_^)^\\
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Stinger
The Knights of Chaos
General
Joined: 30-Apr-2002 00:00
Posts: 1833
Location: United States
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| Posted: 04-Nov-2014 01:20 Post subject: Small dropship question. or shuttle craft. |
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Cool that does help. Which books are you referencing? Not sure which ones I am missing.
There is something else that bothers me though. I have been looking at the Small craft ST-46 shuttle.
As near as I can tell it has a 27 ton engine. Or it is underweight by the same amount. I have been looking at the construction rules in the Battlespace book, and trying to recreate the design and have a had a hell of a time getting the figures to come out properly.
It says to determin the size of a dropships engine using its mass and intended safe thrust vbalue. a dropship may use any thrust value up to 10, but the greater the TV the larger the engine. the engine takes up 6.5% of the crafts mass. they then give an example of a 1000 ton dropship with a TV of 3 having a engine that weigh's 195 tons.
Ok. so by my math 3 x 6.5= 19.5 and the little shuttle craft with it's safe thrust of 4 x 6.5 = 26 tons. How can this be? I feel like I am missing something. but I just cant tell what it is. So any help with that would be nice.
_________________
Stinger
If it's "creepy" to use the Internet, military satellites, and robot aircraft to find a house full of gorgeous young models so I can drop in on them unexpected, then FINE, I'm "creepy". Howard Wolowitz. BBT.
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Vagabond
Mercenary
Mr. Referee
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 5792
Location: United States
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| Posted: 04-Nov-2014 13:12 Post subject: Re: Small dropship question. or shuttle craft. |
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| Stinger wrote: | Cool that does help. Which books are you referencing? Not sure which ones I am missing.
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TW = Total Warfare
TM = TechManual
TO = Tactical Ops
SO = Strategic Ops
There is something else that bothers me though. I have been looking at the Small craft ST-46 shuttle.
| wrote: |
As near as I can tell it has a 27 ton engine. Or it is underweight by the same amount. I have been looking at the construction rules in the Battlespace book, and trying to recreate the design and have a had a hell of a time getting the figures to come out properly.
It says to determin the size of a dropships engine using its mass and intended safe thrust vbalue. a dropship may use any thrust value up to 10, but the greater the TV the larger the engine. the engine takes up 6.5% of the crafts mass. they then give an example of a 1000 ton dropship with a TV of 3 having a engine that weigh's 195 tons.
Ok. so by my math 3 x 6.5= 19.5 and the little shuttle craft with it's safe thrust of 4 x 6.5 = 26 tons. How can this be? I feel like I am missing something. but I just cant tell what it is. So any help with that would be nice. |
Well, this could be part of the issue... Battlespace is 2 editions old. It was supplanted by Aerotech 2 and then Total Warfare Core books.
But I pulled up the craft in question in HMAero and swapped between the two rulesets:
AeroTech 2 Vessel Technical Readout
VALIDATED
Class/Model/Name: Shuttle ST-46
Tech: Inner Sphere / 2528
Vessel Type: Aerodyne Small Craft
Rules: Level 1, Standard design
Rules Set: AeroTech2
Mass: 100 tons
Length: 25 meters
Power Plant: Standard
Safe Thrust: 4
Maximum Thrust: 6
Armor Type: Standard
Armament: None
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
==Overview:==
The ST-46 is a typical example of the numerous types of shuttlecraft that
operate in the Inner Sphere. Many stations and transports prefer to use small
craft such as the ST-46 to transfer cargo to avoid docking with larger
vessels, and most carry at least one such shuttlecraft. A streamlined
aerodyne, the ST-46 is designed to carry both cargo and passengers. The
shuttle’s aerodynamic properties enable it to conserve fuel on trips from
space to a planet’s surface.
Because the ST-46 is an aerodyne, the unarmed craft cannot land
vertically and requires a prepared runway for landing, preferably one made of
ferrocrete or a similar building material. Five tons of armor provide the
ST-46 with limited protection against landing and docking mishaps. The
vessel’s passenger compartment is situated behind the ST-46’s small cockpit.
This section can accommodate eight passengers and may be accessed through the
cockpit or the vessel’s single airlock. The ST-46’s 50-ton capacity cargo bay
can only be reached through the main cargo door on the vessel’s starboard
side, or through ducting in the craft’s engineering section.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Class/Model/Name: Shuttle ST-46
Mass: 100 tons
Equipment: Mass
Power Plant, Drive & Control: 26.00
Thrust: Safe Thrust: 4
Maximum Thrust: 6
Structural Integrity: 6 3.00
Total Heat Sinks: 0 Single .00
Fuel & Fuel Pumps: 5.50
Bridge, Controls, Radar, Computer & Attitude Thrusters: 1.00
Fire Control Computers: .00
Food & Water: (18 days supply) 1.00
Armor Type: Standard (320 total armor pts) 18.50
Standard Scale Armor Pts
Location: L / R
Fore: 160
Left/Right Wings: 48/48
Aft: 64
Cargo:
Bay 1: Cargo (1) 12.00
Bay 2: Passengers (8) (1) 8.00
Crew and Passengers:
1 Officers (0 minimum) 10.00
2 Crew (2 minimum) 14.00
8 Bay Personnel .00
Weapons and Equipment Loc SRV MRV LRV ERV Heat Mass
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
1 Lot Spare Parts (1.00%) 1.00
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
TOTALS: Heat: 0 100.00
Tons Left: .00
Calculated Factors:
Total Cost: 4,131,060 C-Bills
Battle Value: 654
Cost per BV: 6,316.61
Weapon Value: 0 (Ratio = .00)
Damage Factors: SRV = 0; MRV = 0; LRV = 0; ERV = 0
Maintenance: Maintenance Point Value (MPV) = 1,138
(328 Structure, 810 Life Support, 0 Weapons)
Support Points (SP) = 4,501 (396% of MPV)
BattleForce2: MP: 4, Armor/Structure: 8 / 0
Damage PB/M/L: -/-/-, Overheat: 0
Class: DH; Point Value: 7
BattleSpace Vessel Technical Readout
VALIDATED
Class/Model/Name: Shuttle ST-46
Tech: Inner Sphere / 2528
Vessel Type: Aerodyne Small Craft
Rules: Level 1, Standard design
Rules Set: BattleSpace
Mass: 100 tons
Length: 25 meters
Power Plant: Standard
Safe Thrust: 4
Maximum Thrust: 6
Armor Type: Standard
Armament: None
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
==Overview:==
The ST-46 is a typical example of the numerous types of shuttlecraft that
operate in the Inner Sphere. Many stations and transports prefer to use small
craft such as the ST-46 to transfer cargo to avoid docking with larger
vessels, and most carry at least one such shuttlecraft. A streamlined
aerodyne, the ST-46 is designed to carry both cargo and passengers. The
shuttle’s aerodynamic properties enable it to conserve fuel on trips from
space to a planet’s surface.
Because the ST-46 is an aerodyne, the unarmed craft cannot land
vertically and requires a prepared runway for landing, preferably one made of
ferrocrete or a similar building material. Five tons of armor provide the
ST-46 with limited protection against landing and docking mishaps. The
vessel’s passenger compartment is situated behind the ST-46’s small cockpit.
This section can accommodate eight passengers and may be accessed through the
cockpit or the vessel’s single airlock. The ST-46’s 50-ton capacity cargo bay
can only be reached through the main cargo door on the vessel’s starboard
side, or through ducting in the craft’s engineering section.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Class/Model/Name: Shuttle ST-46
Mass: 100 tons
Equipment: Mass
Power Plant, Drive & Control: 26.00
Thrust: Safe Thrust: 4
Maximum Thrust: 6
Structural Integrity: 6 3.00
Total Heat Sinks: 0 Single .00
Fuel & Fuel Pumps: 5.50
Bridge, Controls, Computer & Attitude Thrusters: 1.00
Fire Control Computers: .00
Food & Water: (18 days supply) 1.00
Armor Type: Standard (32 total armor pts) 17.50
Capital Scale Armor Pts
Location: L / R
Fore: 16
Left/Right Wings: 5/5
Aft: 6
Cargo:
Bay 1: Cargo (1) 12.00
Bay 2: Passengers (8) (1) 8.00
Crew and Passengers:
1 Primary Engineers (1 suggested) 10.00
2 Secondary Engineers (1 suggested) 14.00
8 Bay Personnel .00
Weapons and Equipment Loc SRV MRV LRV ERV Heat Mass
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
1 Lot Spare Parts (1.00%) 1.00
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
TOTALS: Heat: 0 99.00
Tons Left: 1.00
Calculated Factors:
Total Cost: 4,341,060 C-Bills
Battle Value: 78
Cost per BV: 55,654.62
Weapon Value: 0 (Ratio = .00)
Damage Factors: SRV = 0; MRV = 0; LRV = 0; ERV = 0
Maintenance: Maintenance Point Value (MPV) = 1,138
(328 Structure, 810 Life Support, 0 Weapons)
Support Points (SP) = 4,501 (396% of MPV)
BattleForce2: MP: 4, Armor/Structure: 1 / 0
Damage PB/M/L: -/-/-, Overheat: 0
Class: DH; Point Value: 1
It looks like the engine should be 26 tons.
_________________
one must work hard to cultivate the mind and body. and one must always cultivate the mind.
//^(^_^)^\\
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Stinger
The Knights of Chaos
General
Joined: 30-Apr-2002 00:00
Posts: 1833
Location: United States
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| Posted: 04-Nov-2014 15:41 Post subject: Small dropship question. or shuttle craft. |
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| wrote: | | Well, this could be part of the issue... Battlespace is 2 editions old. It was supplanted by Aerotech 2 and then Total Warfare Core books. |
Well that answeres that question. Thank you for looking into that. it is interesting that the rules changes increase the crew requirements from 1 to 2. that is a little dissapointing, it was a little character element Iwas going to use for my next book. /shrug Oh well.
Thanks again Vagabond.
_________________
Stinger
If it's "creepy" to use the Internet, military satellites, and robot aircraft to find a house full of gorgeous young models so I can drop in on them unexpected, then FINE, I'm "creepy". Howard Wolowitz. BBT.
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Mordel
Mordel.Net
Administrator
Joined: 03-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 6087
Location: United States
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| Posted: 07-Nov-2014 09:41 Post subject: Small dropship question. or shuttle craft. |
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I'm glad we have someone here who can speak to anything non-'Mech related in this game. 
Thanks Vagabond!!
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Mordel Blacknight - Site Administrator
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Vagabond
Mercenary
Mr. Referee
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 5792
Location: United States
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| Posted: 07-Nov-2014 16:17 Post subject: Re: Small dropship question. or shuttle craft. |
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| Mordel wrote: | I'm glad we have someone here who can speak to anything non-'Mech related in this game.
Thanks Vagabond!! |
I just really enjoy all of the tech and stuff.
_________________
one must work hard to cultivate the mind and body. and one must always cultivate the mind.
//^(^_^)^\\
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