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AlayneLeung
Lyran Alliance
Staff Sergeant
Joined: 03-Jan-2015 18:40
Posts: 133
Location: United States
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 Posted: 03-Jan-2015 19:23 Post subject: Generalized rules for additional personnel in a unit in IO? |
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| Like a generalized rule published in each and every copy of Interstellar Operations that each additional person that operates controls of a unit (like piloting/driving or gunnery or whatever) consumes 0.25 tons per person and his/her controls for unit & computer (all computers for these persons are linked together or just one computer for them all to simultaneously use via their controls)? They could be in the cockpit/bay of a 'Mech or other unit and could also fight off infantry intruders that try to swarm or board to seize control of said unit. What do you each think?
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Vagabond
Mercenary
Mr. Referee
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 5792
Location: United States
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| Posted: 03-Jan-2015 21:34 Post subject: Re: Generalized rules for additional personnel in a unit in IO? |
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| AlayneLeung wrote: | | Like a generalized rule published in each and every copy of Interstellar Operations that each additional person that operates controls of a unit (like piloting/driving or gunnery or whatever) consumes 0.25 tons per person and his/her controls for unit & computer (all computers for these persons are linked together or just one computer for them all to simultaneously use via their controls)? They could be in the cockpit/bay of a 'Mech or other unit and could also fight off infantry intruders that try to swarm or board to seize control of said unit. What do you each think? |
Rules for Crews:
Cockpit Command Console - TacOps pg.301
Quarters/Seating - TechMan pg.236
Transport - TechMam pg.239
Vehicle Crews - TacOps pg.218-219
The rule you suggest is already covered by the present ruleset.
_________________
one must work hard to cultivate the mind and body. and one must always cultivate the mind.
//^(^_^)^\\
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AlayneLeung
Lyran Alliance
Staff Sergeant
Joined: 03-Jan-2015 18:40
Posts: 133
Location: United States
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| Posted: 04-Jan-2015 16:14 Post subject: Re: Generalized rules for additional personnel in a unit in IO? |
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Yeah.
Maximum Tech Revised rulebook has rules for additional crew persons in conventional vehicles that could negate their attacker movement modifiers, and MechWarrior Companion rulebook had rules for the dual cockpit that could enable the pilot of any 'Mech that has a dual cockpit to have a +1 defensive target movement modifier bonus on all attacks against said 'Mech and also a -1 piloting bonus modifier while the gunner of said 'Mech could gain a -1 gunnery bonus modifier on all attacks. I'd like for more balanced and simplified rules for additional personnel in which a character that is exclusively piloting or exclusively driving a unit could gain said -1 piloting bonus modifier and the +1 defensive movement modifier bonus on all attacks against said unit for said unit (this is basically the dual cockpit piloting & defensive bonuses from MechWarrior Companion that applies to any unit), while each person shooting negates the attacker movement modifier of the unit (s)he is in for each weapon attack/linked set of weapons attack (this is basically the additional personnel attacker movement modifier negation rule from Maximum Tech); and personnel in a unit not driving/piloting/using weaponry/equipment could help to deter swarming to control/boarding attacks as per Maximum Tech/BattleSpace rules to deter swarming/boarding attacks.
Also, i'd like a much more balanced and simplified way of designing each unit ('Mech, vehicle, aerospace fighter, etc.), like say:
0.25 tons for each person, computer and its power supply, communications, controls
0.25 tons standard sensors
1.00 ton life support
0.20 tons for ejection mechanism with fuel for ejection per person
1.00 tons for other life support if not using small cockpit
0.30 tons structure of 3 ton cockpit for 'Mech/aerospace fighter
3.00 tons for person w/ command console
0.15 tons per additional person plus 0.10 tons per additional structure of cockpit per additional person (i thought this would be reasonable)
note that 0.30 tons structure can be increased/decreased for heavier/lighter cockpit (like dual/small)
total is 6.25 tons for dual command console cockpit
And, i'd like for sensors to be balanced way better because: the double blind rules for sensors in Tactical Operations give aerospace fighters a very good advantage over 'Mechs, vehicles, and other units; and TO's double blind rules for 'Mech sensors are way more advantageous over conventional vehicles. These rules for sensors weren't playtested very well, and i'm concerned that players just learning these double blind sensor rules are going to be without a doubt greatly confused.
_________________
"Okay friendlies, you're not paid to be exclusively a 'MechWarrior', vehicle/spacecraft crewer, fighter pilot, or infantry trooper. You're just paid to follow my orders!" So says me to my personnel.
[Last edited by AlayneLeung on 19-Apr-2015 17:15; edited 6 times in total]
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Vagabond
Mercenary
Mr. Referee
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 5792
Location: United States
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| Posted: 04-Jan-2015 17:21 Post subject: Re: Generalized rules for additional personnel in a unit in IO? |
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| AlayneLeung wrote: | Yeah.
Maximum Tech Revised rulebook has rules for additional crew persons in conventional vehicles that could negate their attacker movement modifiers, |
And i provided you with the updated rules for this.
| wrote: | and MechWarrior Companion rulebook had rules for the dual cockpit that could enable the pilot of any 'Mech that has a dual cockpit to have a +1 defensive target movement modifier bonus on all attacks against said 'Mech and also a -1 piloting bonus modifier while the gunner of said 'Mech could gain a -1 gunnery bonus modifier on all attacks. I'd like for more balanced and simplified rules for additional personnel in which a character that is exclusively piloting or exclusively driving a unit could gain said -1 piloting bonus modifier and the +1 defensive movement modifier bonus on all attacks against said unit for said unit, while each person shooting gets a -1 to-hit modifier on each weapon attack/linked set of weapons attack; and personnel in a unit not driving/piloting/using weaponry/equipment could help to deter swarming to control/boarding attacks.
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I remember those rules. They were interesting and actually came before the command console in maxtech. It was decided by the powers that be that the rules were not worth continuing and updating in the most recent ruleset. Likely because it was unbalanced.
As for a vehicle crew, as I said above... they have already provided a update to multiple crewmen in a vehicle and decided that because of the design and nature of vehicles that even though roles a dedicated that they do not provide dedicated bonuses per say. However, if your using or semi-using the RPG rules, this dedicated nature would result in skill bonuses faster for vehicles then in a mech: a driver only really needs to improve 1 skill and likewise with a gunner while a mech pilot needs to improve 2 skills with the same xp.
| wrote: | Also, i'd like a much more balanced and simplified way of designing each unit ('Mech, vehicle, aerospace fighter, etc.), like say:
0.25 tons for each person, computer and its power supply, communications, controls
0.25 tons standard sensors
1.00 ton life support
0.30 tons structure of cockpit for 'Mech/aerospace fighter
0.20 tons for ejection mechanism with fuel for ejection per person
1.00 tons for other life support if not using small cockpit
3.00 tons for person w/ command console
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Wait... what? you ask for a more simplified way to design units and then present a more complicated method? And how is this balanced? Each unit type has its own method because 1. different rules at different times and 2. different units using different equipment/methods.
| wrote: |
And, i'd like for sensors to be balanced way better because: the double blind rules for sensors in Tactical Operations give aerospace fighters a very good advantage over 'Mechs, vehicles, and other units; and TO's double blind rules for 'Mech sensors are way more advantageous over conventional vehicles. These rules for sensors weren't playtested very well. |
This is the third iteration of these rules: Tactical Handbook, Maxtech, and TacOps. They have been playtested. And yes, aero units have the best spotting ability... they are in the air.
Aerofighters are described as having at LEAST as powerful a sensor suite as Mechs who in turn have a more powerful sensor suite then vehicles (ignoring BAP). So yes, aero > mech > vehicle > infantry. Its all explained in the fiction and then assigned as such in the rules.
However, feel free to request these on the official forums. if you get enough traction maybe you'll get updated rules. I'm just telling you here that the rules are thus for reasons that have been given when they are given, like duel cockpits has never been given.
_________________
one must work hard to cultivate the mind and body. and one must always cultivate the mind.
//^(^_^)^\\
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AlayneLeung
Lyran Alliance
Staff Sergeant
Joined: 03-Jan-2015 18:40
Posts: 133
Location: United States
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| Posted: 09-Jan-2015 17:27 Post subject: Re: Generalized rules for additional personnel in a unit in IO? |
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i must have missed seeing those rules; check out them later on.
yeah, the writers did choose to keep these rules from being republished; and as for the gunnery -1 to-hit modifier bonus for an additional person, i want and prefer just the simple attacker movement modifier negation rule from Maximum Tech Revised for any vehicular unit so it's in accordance with how Newton said motion is relative to a viewer. This explains why fictional characters can put into effect: drive by attack(s); or in case of a 'Mech, a walk/run/sprint/crawl/jump/dangle&drop by attack(s); or in case of an aerospace fighter, fly by attack(s).
i did post my idea as a reply to a topic on the official BT forums
bg.battletech.com/forums/general-discussion/vehicle-crew-requirements/
well i guess that list of cockpit component and personnel masses isn't so simple, but it provides standard well known and well comprehended cockpit components & personnel masses for a unit so as not to confuse players that are just starting to comprehend BT rules. it's balanced because any vehicular unit ('Mech, conventional vehicle, aerospace fighter, etc.) that masses less than 500 tons would follow these same standard well known and well comprehended interchangeable cockpit personnel & component rules.
VTOLs, 'Mechs, and other units at elevations higher than aerospace fighters should have better spotting abilities than said aerospace fighters.
_________________
"Okay friendlies, you're not paid to be exclusively a 'MechWarrior', vehicle/spacecraft crewer, fighter pilot, or infantry trooper. You're just paid to follow my orders!" So says me to my personnel.
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magicaldeveloper
Free Worlds League
Private
Joined: 19-Sep-2015 19:11
Posts: 18
Location: United States
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| Posted: 19-Sep-2015 22:20 Post subject: Re: Generalized rules for additional personnel in a unit in IO? |
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you've got good rules for additional personnel for unit(s) that i agree with
i do recommend using amended versions of these rules for immobile structures (extra personnel for more weapons to simultaneously defend against more units)
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any BT information that i post should not be considered official BT information unless said BT information that i post can be legally quoted from a published up to date BT product
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