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Vagabond
Mercenary
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Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
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Location: United States
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 Posted: 17-Dec-2015 12:38 Post subject: mounted searchlights |
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In the TechManual their is a peice of equipment called 'Searchlight' that comes in two variants: handheld and mounted. Under this equipment it states that ALL non-Mech and Combat vehicles mount 3 handheld (2 front and 1 aft) while all Mechs and Combat Vehicles have the option to mount a single mounted searchlight. All of these cost no weight, space, or cost to mount.
The rules for night combat are then found in TacOps with further rules for the mounting of these free seachlights in StratOps as a quirk. In TacOps and under this quirk, they add the rule that any torso or vehicle front/side hit to a unit with a searchlight destroys the searchlight on a 7+.
Ok, that makes sense. Its a draw back to a free item that gives you a combat advantage under certain combat conditions.
And its after this point that I start to have an issue.
Because, in the TechManual you are allowed to mount additional 'mounted searchlights' for 0.5t, 1 crit, and 2k c-bills. It is an option that can be built into a unit instead of just given for free.
However, the official rulings by TPTB stat that these extra searchlights still use the 7+ rule regardless of where they are mounted and regardless of the fact you spent an MGs worth of weight and space mounting it. I'm sorry, that is BS. Their is not a single other system in BT that costs resources to mount that becomes disabled on a random external hit. If it takes up a crit, I want it better protected from being disabled then 54% of ANY torso hit. I mean goodness, their are officially published Mechs with cockpit windows that still require a TAC to penetrate.
Now I saw an argument on the BT forums that the roll is because its REALLY easy to break the searchlight bulb, which in turn disables the entire system. Not destroyed in the case of truly mounted searchlights as in needing a repair roll, just disabled until they can pop a new bulb in during maintenance. But if i'm spending unit resources to mount this item, I want better then 46% chance on the most common type of hit that its not gonna bust.
So its is my personal opinion, that the TPTB are wrong and are just being lazy. Instead of errataing the rules they are sticking with the rules used to balance the free searchlight.
If you mounted a searchlight via a crit, it should only get disabled if it takes a crit. But if you buy the bulb explanation, then it should be a TAC or a hit to the mounted location AND on a 9 or 10+ to represent the better protection.
my 2 c-bills.
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chihawk
Clan Blood Spirit
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| Posted: 17-Dec-2015 15:24 Post subject: mounted searchlights |
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I ran a convention event one time using searchlights on mechs. Trust me, don't use them. EVER.
You illuminate one target but are illuminated for everyone.
You lose using searchlights.
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Vagabond
Mercenary
Mr. Referee
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
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Location: United States
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| Posted: 17-Dec-2015 16:09 Post subject: Re: mounted searchlights |
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| chihawk wrote: | I ran a convention event one time using searchlights on mechs. Trust me, don't use them. EVER.
You illuminate one target but are illuminated for everyone.
You lose using searchlights. |
They updated the rules with errata so that it illuminates you, a target hex, and every hex between you and that hex via the LOS rules. Thus you can illuminate more than 1 target. If a target is illuminated, it is also targetable by any unit within 40 hexes if using double blind.
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Mordel
Mordel.Net
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Joined: 03-Feb-2002 00:00
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Location: United States
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| Posted: 18-Dec-2015 11:16 Post subject: Re: mounted searchlights |
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| Vagabond wrote: | | chihawk wrote: | I ran a convention event one time using searchlights on mechs. Trust me, don't use them. EVER.
You illuminate one target but are illuminated for everyone.
You lose using searchlights. |
They updated the rules with errata so that it illuminates you, a target hex, and every hex between you and that hex via the LOS rules. Thus you can illuminate more than 1 target. If a target is illuminated, it is also targetable by any unit within 40 hexes if using double blind. |
Which doesn't change the fact that you are still illuminated for everyone!
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chihawk
Clan Blood Spirit
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Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
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Location: United States
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| Posted: 18-Dec-2015 14:32 Post subject: Re: mounted searchlights |
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| Mordel wrote: | | Vagabond wrote: | | chihawk wrote: | I ran a convention event one time using searchlights on mechs. Trust me, don't use them. EVER.
You illuminate one target but are illuminated for everyone.
You lose using searchlights. |
They updated the rules with errata so that it illuminates you, a target hex, and every hex between you and that hex via the LOS rules. Thus you can illuminate more than 1 target. If a target is illuminated, it is also targetable by any unit within 40 hexes if using double blind. |
Which doesn't change the fact that you are still illuminated for everyone! |
This. 
Vagabond, we knew about the rule change and we played it that way. One side quickly figured out to not use their searchlights and instead rely on the other side to illuminate themselves when they used one. It turned it into a very short battle.
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Vagabond
Mercenary
Mr. Referee
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 5797
Location: United States
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| Posted: 18-Dec-2015 18:14 Post subject: Re: mounted searchlights |
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i found a rotating illumination works pretty good. also, placing the searchlight in a fast jumper who stays at range worked really well.
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Vagabond
Mercenary
Mr. Referee
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Location: United States
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| Posted: 18-Dec-2015 18:23 Post subject: mounted searchlights |
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on a side note, why are the night penalties so big?
it seems excessive for a machine with built in thermal and magnetic sensors.
this is more true with movement in the dark. i understand making the pilot roll if they don't pay the extra per hex, but it should be at -1 not +1. The difficulty is that you are rolling at all.
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Sleeping Dragon
Draconis Combine
Tai-i
Joined: 06-Apr-2005 00:00
Posts: 4820
Location: Czech Republic
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| Posted: 19-Dec-2015 03:03 Post subject: Re: mounted searchlights |
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Why not troll it with VTOLs?
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Vagabond
Mercenary
Mr. Referee
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
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Location: United States
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| Posted: 19-Dec-2015 08:23 Post subject: Re: mounted searchlights |
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| Sleeping Dragon wrote: | | Why not troll it with VTOLs? |
A VTOL with a spotlight?
I love this idea...
10t VTOL @ 9/14 Fusion, 10 HS, 3.5t Stealth, 0.5t Nose Turret, 1 ECM, and a Searchlight in the turret.
The phrase Trololololol comes to mind.
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Sleeping Dragon
Draconis Combine
Tai-i
Joined: 06-Apr-2005 00:00
Posts: 4820
Location: Czech Republic
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| Posted: 19-Dec-2015 14:23 Post subject: Re: mounted searchlights |
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Well, with all those police helicopters it seems rather natural thing to do (and of course that there is no terrain to crash into).
I'd perhaps go for something simpler. ICE and treat them as expendable as they are expected to be. Or perhaps even low cost drones. Speed is the first line of defense, numbers a second one. LRMs with flares are also an option.
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Vagabond
Mercenary
Mr. Referee
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
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Location: United States
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| Posted: 19-Dec-2015 20:16 Post subject: mounted searchlights |
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Drop the MG and Infantry and it makes a perfect cheep scout.
Ferret Light Scout VTOL Recon
Mass: 5 tons
Tech Base: Inner Sphere
Motive Type: VTOL
Rules Level: Advanced Rules
Era: Succession Wars
Tech Rating/Era Availability: D/X-D-D-A
Production Year: 2901
Cost: 127,264 C-Bills
Battle Value: 39
Power Plant: Tyron 25 I.C.E.
Cruise Speed: 162.0 km/h
Flanking Speed: 248.4 km/h
Armor: ProtecTech Light Standard Armor
Armament:
None
Manufacturer: Cal-Boeing of Dorwinion
Primary Factory: Belladonna
Communications System: Achernar Standard
Targeting and Tracking System: IsBM Lanirn
================================================================================
Equipment Type Rating Mass
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Internal Structure: Standard 5 points 0.50
Engine: I.C.E. Engine 25 1.00
Cruise MP: 15
Flank MP: 23
Heat Sinks: Single Heat Sink 0 0.00
Control Equipment: 0.50
Lift Equipment: 0.50
Armor: Standard Armor AV - 8 0.50
Armor
Factor
Front 2
Left/Right 1/1
Rear 2
Rotor 2
================================================================================
Equipment Location Heat Spaces Mass
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Searchlight FR 0 1 0.50
Recon Camera FR 0 1 0.50
Remote Sensor Dispenser LS 0 1 0.50
Remote Sensor Dispenser RS 0 1 0.50
BattleForce Statistics
MV S (+0) M (+2) L (+4) E (+6) Wt. Ov Armor: 0 Points: 0
15v 0 0 0 0 1 0 Structure: 1
Special Abilities: SRCH, ENE, EE
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chihawk
Clan Blood Spirit
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| Posted: 19-Dec-2015 22:41 Post subject: mounted searchlights |
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Searchlights also make no sense in the game mechanics of Battletech. Explain to me how my small laser only goes 90 meters but my flashlight goes to near infinity...
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Vagabond
Mercenary
Mr. Referee
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
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Location: United States
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| Posted: 20-Dec-2015 05:34 Post subject: Re: mounted searchlights |
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| chihawk wrote: | | Searchlights also make no sense in the game mechanics of Battletech. Explain to me how my small laser only goes 90 meters but my flashlight goes to near infinity... |
Or how a unit with thermo optics, magnetic sensors, and holographic huds has any type of penalty in the dark.
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Mordel
Mordel.Net
Administrator
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Location: United States
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| Posted: 21-Dec-2015 08:02 Post subject: mounted searchlights |
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Stop this talk about what makese sense and BattleTech!! 
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Vagabond
Mercenary
Mr. Referee
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
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Location: United States
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| Posted: 21-Dec-2015 13:14 Post subject: Re: mounted searchlights |
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| Mordel wrote: | | Stop this talk about what makese sense and BattleTech!! |
lol
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