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Sarpeadon
Clan Snow Raven
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 Posted: 22-Jun-2018 07:36 Post subject: Heat Efficiency: Unit is inefficient |
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As per the title, I'm struggling to find out what this means exactly. It seems to only happen when certain amounts of weapons of the same type are used, but it also seems to be random which weapons it applies to.
As an example, a 65-ton mech has 3 HMLs and 2 SSRM-4s, adding a fourth HML makes the two SSRMs inefficient, and I'm not sure why.
Would anyone mind explaining this feature or pointing me to where in the rulebook this is covered? I would greatly appreciate it.
P.S. I did search to see if I could find an easy answer, but my google-fu didn't turn up anything meaningful and the forum search itself yielded almost 1300 results.
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Karagin
Imperial Karagin Army
Imperial General
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| Posted: 22-Jun-2018 09:01 Post subject: Heat Efficiency: Unit is inefficient |
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It comes down to this, IMO, if you are going to add the other laser, then the player needs to learn how to bracket weapons for firing to control heat. A couple of points of heat build up is not a bad thing, yes it can add up over time.
Thing is you won't always be in range of each other, so you end up getting rid of the extra heat build up. Added to this you won't always fire the lasers, since the missiles will be hitting all over the place on the mech, that offers you the better change to get crits.
It also comes down to how many of us learned to play the game back before TR2750 came along with the idea of double heat sinks. You learn the ranges of the weapons and you learn how to move the mechs around to give you the best chance to hit and not be hit.
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Karagin
Only the dead have seen the end of war. - Plato
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Mordel
Mordel.Net
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| Posted: 22-Jun-2018 11:40 Post subject: Re: Heat Efficiency: Unit is inefficient |
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| Sarpeadon wrote: | As per the title, I'm struggling to find out what this means exactly. It seems to only happen when certain amounts of weapons of the same type are used, but it also seems to be random which weapons it applies to.
As an example, a 65-ton mech has 3 HMLs and 2 SSRM-4s, adding a fourth HML makes the two SSRMs inefficient, and I'm not sure why.
Would anyone mind explaining this feature or pointing me to where in the rulebook this is covered? I would greatly appreciate it.
P.S. I did search to see if I could find an easy answer, but my google-fu didn't turn up anything meaningful and the forum search itself yielded almost 1300 results. |
I believe you're referring to that text which appears under the Battle Value calculation, correct? Those rules are explained in TechManual.
What it essentially boils down to is, if a unit has more weapons then it can fire all at once without overheating, you don't get the full BV value of each weapon. You only get a certain amount up-to the point where you would start overheating.
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Mordel
Mordel.Net
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| Posted: 22-Jun-2018 11:45 Post subject: Re: Heat Efficiency: Unit is inefficient |
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BTW, the Penetrator PTR-4D is probably one of the prime examples of this. But it also happens to be one of my favorites. It's also very important to note that the part about it being inefficient only matters for BV calculations. The weapons still function in the same manner.
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Sir Henry
Team Bansai
Senior Tech Specialist
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 4899
Location: United States
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| Posted: 22-Jun-2018 19:36 Post subject: Heat Efficiency: Unit is inefficient |
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Mine too Mordel. I fire either 2 large Pulse lasers or the 6 medium Pulse Lasers, not both.
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Sir Henry
A Dragon in the disguise of a bunny, is still a Dragon.
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chihawk
Clan Blood Spirit
Master Bartender
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
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Location: United States
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| Posted: 22-Jun-2018 20:47 Post subject: Heat Efficiency: Unit is inefficient |
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And let's be honest...anything under 12 isn't hot to begin with... 
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Karagin
Imperial Karagin Army
Imperial General
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| Posted: 22-Jun-2018 22:03 Post subject: Heat Efficiency: Unit is inefficient |
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This still comes down to knowing the weapons, their ranges and when to fire what. Same thing we all learned playing with 3025 tech.
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Karagin
Only the dead have seen the end of war. - Plato
"Wasted trip Man. Nobody said nuthin' about lockin' horns with no tigers." Oddball
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Mordel
Mordel.Net
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| Posted: 23-Jun-2018 22:00 Post subject: Re: Heat Efficiency: Unit is inefficient |
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| Karagin wrote: | | This still comes down to knowing the weapons, their ranges and when to fire what. Same thing we all learned playing with 3025 tech. |
Right. Bracketing in 3025 was such a common thing. You knew what to fire and when to ride that heat line up and down!
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Stinger
The Knights of Chaos
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| Posted: 24-Jun-2018 00:29 Post subject: Heat Efficiency: Unit is inefficient |
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I still design with bracket firing in mind, doesn't matter what era and if it Clan or Inner Sphere. It allows for larger weapons load outs with fewer heat sinks. It has caused many of my designs to be viewed in a negative light I have a Timber Wolf built around LRM's and ER Med's, when used as a bracket firing mech it is scary.
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If it's "creepy" to use the Internet, military satellites, and robot aircraft to find a house full of gorgeous young models so I can drop in on them unexpected, then FINE, I'm "creepy". Howard Wolowitz. BBT.
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Sarpeadon
Clan Snow Raven
Point Commander
Joined: 15-Jun-2018 04:20
Posts: 12
Location: United States
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| Posted: 24-Jun-2018 08:45 Post subject: Re: Heat Efficiency: Unit is inefficient |
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| Mordel wrote: | | Sarpeadon wrote: | As per the title, I'm struggling to find out what this means exactly. It seems to only happen when certain amounts of weapons of the same type are used, but it also seems to be random which weapons it applies to.
As an example, a 65-ton mech has 3 HMLs and 2 SSRM-4s, adding a fourth HML makes the two SSRMs inefficient, and I'm not sure why.
Would anyone mind explaining this feature or pointing me to where in the rulebook this is covered? I would greatly appreciate it.
P.S. I did search to see if I could find an easy answer, but my google-fu didn't turn up anything meaningful and the forum search itself yielded almost 1300 results. |
I believe you're referring to that text which appears under the Battle Value calculation, correct? Those rules are explained in TechManual.
What it essentially boils down to is, if a unit has more weapons then it can fire all at once without overheating, you don't get the full BV value of each weapon. You only get a certain amount up-to the point where you would start overheating. |
This is exactly what I was looking for - I actually own all of the other core rulebooks except for the TechManual. I'll have to pick that up and go over it.
I do have a question, though. For the more "gamey" players, couldn't they use this as a method of artificially lowering their BV if you are attempting to play within certain BV limits?
In any case, I sincerely appreciate the answer.
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Sarpeadon
Clan Snow Raven
Point Commander
Joined: 15-Jun-2018 04:20
Posts: 12
Location: United States
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| Posted: 24-Jun-2018 08:49 Post subject: Re: Heat Efficiency: Unit is inefficient |
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| Karagin wrote: | It comes down to this, IMO, if you are going to add the other laser, then the player needs to learn how to bracket weapons for firing to control heat. A couple of points of heat build up is not a bad thing, yes it can add up over time.
Thing is you won't always be in range of each other, so you end up getting rid of the extra heat build up. Added to this you won't always fire the lasers, since the missiles will be hitting all over the place on the mech, that offers you the better change to get crits.
It also comes down to how many of us learned to play the game back before TR2750 came along with the idea of double heat sinks. You learn the ranges of the weapons and you learn how to move the mechs around to give you the best chance to hit and not be hit. |
This makes sense to me. In practice, though, I try to design most of my own custom mechs with the ability to alpha strike every turn. I can appreciate the all-around nature of most of the canon designs, but I just crave efficiency. [/i]
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Mordel
Mordel.Net
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| Posted: 24-Jun-2018 12:47 Post subject: Re: Heat Efficiency: Unit is inefficient |
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| Sarpeadon wrote: | | I do have a question, though. For the more "gamey" players, couldn't they use this as a method of artificially lowering their BV if you are attempting to play within certain BV limits? |
Without doubt!! Some players know how to game the BV system. Once you understand what drives it, it's easy to get to really high BV units or really low units.
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chihawk
Clan Blood Spirit
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Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
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| Posted: 24-Jun-2018 14:06 Post subject: Re: Heat Efficiency: Unit is inefficient |
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The key is things that really swing a mech's BV tend to be heavy...so you want to have a couple seven ton ERPPCs on your mech you're losing a lot more than you're gaining. And keeping your heat sinks low only works until you're in combat with someone with infernos, or until you get an engine hit or two.
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