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Kraken
Federated Suns
Marshal
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
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Location: United States
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 Posted: 08-Aug-2003 14:13 Post subject: MiG Found Buried in Iraq |
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http://www.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2003/8/6/105528.shtml
To sum it up, earlier this week soldiers with the Air Force found a MiG 25 Foxbat buried in the sand in Iraq. It is believed that this model may have advanced electronics on it that were made after the 1990 ban on arms sales to Iraq.
Edit: At first I said that it was in near-perfect shape. I missed a photo at the bottom of the page which shows that in reality, the wings weren't attatched. The article said nothing about whether or not the wings were found nearby. But the rest of the plane looks like it's in good shape.
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[ This Message was edited by: Kraken on 2003-08-08 14:25 ]
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"I wish I could write as mysterious as a cat." -Edgar Allen Poe"I knew there was something special about you, but I never realized you were really a cat." Wolfwood to a random cat (Trigun)
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Sir Henry
Team Bansai
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| Posted: 08-Aug-2003 14:48 Post subject: RE: MiG Found Buried in Iraq |
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See what happens when you leave the Dog in charge... You never know what he's buried....
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Sir Henry
A Dragon in the disguise of a bunny, is still a Dragon.
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chihawk
Clan Blood Spirit
Master Bartender
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Location: United States
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| Posted: 08-Aug-2003 16:28 Post subject: RE: MiG Found Buried in Iraq |
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There are hundreds of them buried....
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Clarke
Clan Star Adder
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Joined: 08-Aug-2003 00:00
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| Posted: 08-Aug-2003 16:39 Post subject: RE: MiG Found Buried in Iraq |
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Gee beasties. I didn't think that beast was still in production. Gee, good to see that they finally did something about the vacuum tubes on that thing.
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Slythis
Federated Suns
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| Posted: 12-Aug-2003 21:18 Post subject: RE: MiG Found Buried in Iraq |
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Quote:
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On 2003-08-08 16:39, Clarke wrote:
Gee beasties. I didn't think that beast was still in production.
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Nor I. but then again it's about as update as most of our current widly used aircraft wich are ALL 70s or prior designs
French-made electronics
no suprise there, they've been doing it for years
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Gunslinger Patch
Royal Black Watch Regiment
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| Posted: 12-Aug-2003 22:05 Post subject: RE: MiG Found Buried in Iraq |
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I saw bit on that watching the news before work this morning. A soldier on the scene remarked to the camera that burying so well it may have hidden it until now, but that which is buried in sand will never fly again. So when they buried it, it was the same as destroying it, save that the remains can now be studied to see how many parts were made in France or Russia after 1990.
There was this retired Colonel on Fox who talked about how the Iraqis could have buried all those planes and our satillites missed it. He said they knew the orbits for our eyes in the sky and just worked on hiding their stuff when we could not see them do it.
The guy also said that since finding this Mig was so hard, it should really be no surprise that the troops haven't found very much in the way of WMDs yet. That would have been well buried too.
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Gunslinger Patch
Royal Black Watch Regiment
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| Posted: 12-Aug-2003 22:13 Post subject: RE: MiG Found Buried in Iraq |
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Oh, yeah. I subscribe to Human Events, a conservative newsletter/paper that these days features a column by Oliver North.
In a recent one, North wrote about how on a flight he was seated with a reserve pilot who told him that he was getting out just as soon as he got home. The guy flys air tankers and says those things are so old, cranky, and problematic they now qualify as deathtraps and he was taking off his uniform rather than fly those things again. because he had a wife and kids to think about.
North looked into it and found that our fleet for air refueling is much like the helicopters of the Marine unit he spent time with. He said those helos were older than everyone in the unit save for himself, the CO, and 1 or 2 senior noncoms. And with the tanker fleet, there is apparently no money being budgeted to replace them even though many of them date back as far if not farther than the B52s.
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Stinger
The Knights of Chaos
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| Posted: 12-Aug-2003 22:33 Post subject: RE: MiG Found Buried in Iraq |
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I think that has been why there was a push for a new model a couple months ago. I havent heard where it was going but I was personally for it. ( And no I dont work at Boeing  )
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Stinger
If it's "creepy" to use the Internet, military satellites, and robot aircraft to find a house full of gorgeous young models so I can drop in on them unexpected, then FINE, I'm "creepy". Howard Wolowitz. BBT.
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Gunslinger Patch
Royal Black Watch Regiment
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| Posted: 13-Aug-2003 23:52 Post subject: RE: MiG Found Buried in Iraq |
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I just dug up the article. Here's the basics of what North wrote.
"The Marines with whom I was embedded in Irag- Marine Medium Helicopter Squadron 268- were flying some of the same CH-46 helos that carried me and my mates into combat in Vietnam more than 34 years ago. With the exception of a few Sgts. Major, the squadron commander and I were the only people in those birds who were older than the helicopters."
"The Assault Amphib Vehicles that carried most of the Marine combat units hundreds of miles into battle were nearly all older than the troops inside them. The Marine C-130s that landed on highways in the middle of the night to deliver supplies and evacuate wounded were equally ancient."
"And while the Army and Marines had magnificent M-1 Abrams tanks, the M-88 Tank Retrievers, essential to recovering damamged armor, date back to the Vietnam Era."
And he mentioned the B52s of course.
For the air tankers, our fleet is 60 converted airliners called KC-10s, that I think all date back at least into the 80s, most likely back to the 70s or so, the article didn't say. And 545 KC135s that the article did state were built when Eisenhower was President. And North states that the Air Force is saying that buying new air tankers will take 20 years.
That's a serious point there, when those air tankers that are so vital to our ability to rule in the air no matter where the troops are sent are not only all older than most of the people who fly in them, but are mostly older than their parents too.
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CO_17thRecon
Kell Hounds
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| Posted: 13-Aug-2003 23:56 Post subject: RE: MiG Found Buried in Iraq |
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My buddy is in the air force and it's not enemy fire I worry about. I've always worried about those planes simply having an equipment failure.
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Slythis
Federated Suns
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| Posted: 14-Aug-2003 00:35 Post subject: RE: MiG Found Buried in Iraq |
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All we REALLY need in the Air force is a cheap fast fighter that can launch Pheonix Missile and we'd dominate the skys, killing our enimes before they can even detect us.
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Alexander
Heavy Horse Merc Brigade
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| Posted: 14-Aug-2003 00:37 Post subject: RE: MiG Found Buried in Iraq |
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Thats not so bad. You should listen to whats going on in Canada.
We fly the Sea King, (although ones built over 30 years ago.) They were due for replacement about 8 years ago, but, when our current government took over power they scrapped the deal which would have gotten us Merlins. The really bad thing here is, they were ordered, and cancelling the order cost us $500 Million in penalties. Then there were no helos ordered to replace our Sea Kings, because the government stated that there was no need, as the Sea Kings were still in good shape.
Naturally, the helos started crashing, and killing people. We still don't have a replacement planned, (although the Air Force is pushing for the Merlin still, the Gov. won't buy them, because that would be embarrasing.) To make matters more interesting, we just replaced our old Labrador (Sea Knight) Search and Rescue helos with... the Cormorant (a stripped down Merlin!)
As well, the government has decided that tanks are a thing of the past, and are cutting back on them as well. I recently learned that all the Canadian Reserve Armoured units are losing our tanks, and going to Jeep Recce. Yay... 
Alexander
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Sir Henry
Team Bansai
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| Posted: 14-Aug-2003 07:23 Post subject: RE: MiG Found Buried in Iraq |
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Even in real life, dispossession is possible....
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Sir Henry
A Dragon in the disguise of a bunny, is still a Dragon.
[ This Message was edited by: Sir Henry on 2003-08-14 13:18 ]
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Sir Henry
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Hardware
Clan Ghost Bear
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| Posted: 14-Aug-2003 11:03 Post subject: RE: MiG Found Buried in Iraq |
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Quote:
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On 2003-08-14 00:35, Slythis wrote:
All we REALLY need in the Air force is a cheap fast fighter that can launch Pheonix Missile and we'd dominate the skys, killing our enimes before they can even detect us.
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Slythis,
The Air Force and Navy thought the same thing when they ordered the F-4 Phantom. It never even had a gun installed as original equipment. That is until it started tangling with MIG's over North Vietnam. They hung 20mm gun pods on them as a stop gap until the McDonnel-Douglas guys could figure a place to shoehorn in a Vulcan on the airframe.
If you become reliant on missiles then someone is going to sneak up on you in an "obsolete" design with an "obsolete" weapon and blast you at point blank range. Both the Air Force and the Navy went back to gun fighters and concentrating on air combat manuevering.
We've had the Phoenix missile in inventory since the mid 70's. How many times has it been used? The sparrow, sidewinder and lately the AMRAMM keep on getting the kills.
As far as the air tanker situation... Didn't Napoleon learn the hard way about taking care of logistics? World War 2 wasn't won by the M-1 Garand, or the P-51 Mustang, it was won by the deuce and a half, the C-47 and the Liberty ship.
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Motown Scrapper
Clan Ice Hellions
Galaxy Commander
Joined: 24-Jul-2003 00:00
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Location: United States
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| Posted: 14-Aug-2003 21:28 Post subject: RE: MiG Found Buried in Iraq |
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There are still WWII vintage C-47s in civilan service today and there is a company that is retrofitting them with Turbo prop engines and they say that those retrofits should still be airworthy into the middle of this century 100 years after they were built a testemony to the strength of that airframe so depending on how well they are designed just because they are old does not mean that they are not airworthy.
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