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-Mud
ex-Jade Falcon
Bounty Hunter
Joined: 04-Nov-2003 00:00
Posts: 1082
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 Posted: 12-Mar-2004 10:33 Post subject: Fixing M.G.s and small Lasers |
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Surfing through the reviews of designs, I see a lot of discontent with small lasers and machine guns. Comments like "the M.G.s have to go" or "why did they put on those small lasers" are ubiquitous. Therefore, I will propose the following fix. Machine guns and small lasers should have a range of 2-4-6. Small pulse lasers will remain unchanged, keeping with the general pattern of giving pulse weapons much shorter range. Clan ER small lasers will have a range of 3/6/9, and I'm not worrying about the inner sphere ER small laser, because I never use it in any case.
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Gangrene
Federated Suns
Leftenant General
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 939
Location: United States
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| Posted: 12-Mar-2004 10:47 Post subject: RE: Fixing M.G.s and small Lasers |
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I am rather neutral on your changes. At first glance they look good, but I wonder how they would effect game balance. Your rules might just make it much more appetizing to load up a mech with loads of small weapons instead of a more balanced design. If you playtest the rules, I would be interested in getting the results.
[ This Message was edited by: Gangrene on 2004-03-12 10:48 ]
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-Mud
ex-Jade Falcon
Bounty Hunter
Joined: 04-Nov-2003 00:00
Posts: 1082
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| Posted: 12-Mar-2004 12:43 Post subject: RE: Fixing M.G.s and small Lasers |
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I mostly stick to stock designs, so this is not too much of a concern to me, but I can see where you might have a point. Still, the damage is pretty low on these weapons.
[ This Message was edited by: -Mud on 2004-03-12 12:43 ]
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Nightmare
Lyran Alliance
Kommandant-General
Joined: 03-May-2002 00:00
Posts: 2214
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| Posted: 12-Mar-2004 13:32 Post subject: RE: Fixing M.G.s and small Lasers |
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I've had perfectly fine mechs taken down in one salvo from a small laser boat with TC. They just get up behind the target and aim for a rear torso section, preferably one where there's ammo. Increasing the ranges on these pest weapons would make this tactic less risky, thus increasingly popular. Not a good idea.
The MG isn't such a threat as it doesn't tie into the TC, but it is a threat to infantry. They deserve a chance to shoot back, so keep the range at 1-2-3.
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-Mud
ex-Jade Falcon
Bounty Hunter
Joined: 04-Nov-2003 00:00
Posts: 1082
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| Posted: 12-Mar-2004 14:11 Post subject: RE: Fixing M.G.s and small Lasers |
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Quote:
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On 2004-03-12 13:32, Nightmare wrote:
I've had perfectly fine mechs taken down in one salvo from a small laser boat with TC. They just get up behind the target and aim for a rear torso section, preferably one where there's ammo. Increasing the ranges on these pest weapons would make this tactic less risky, thus increasingly popular. Not a good idea.
The MG isn't such a threat as it doesn't tie into the TC, but it is a threat to infantry. They deserve a chance to shoot back, so keep the range at 1-2-3.
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Regarding the first point, I play mostly 3025, so I don't usually mess around with targeting computers (my current match with Kiris nonwithstanding). Second, infantry really are very vulnerable to long-range vehicle mounted weapons. Infantry vs. armored vehicles usually results in slaughtered infantry for very good reasons. Infantry is very wise to stay hidden, and look for ambushes.
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Jade_Dragon
8th Sword of Light
Sho-sho
Joined: 05-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 1326
Location: United States
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| Posted: 12-Mar-2004 16:25 Post subject: RE: Fixing M.G.s and small Lasers |
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Doubling there ranges might be too drastic...maybe make them 1-2/3/4 or 1-2/3-4/5.
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-Mud
ex-Jade Falcon
Bounty Hunter
Joined: 04-Nov-2003 00:00
Posts: 1082
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| Posted: 12-Mar-2004 16:31 Post subject: RE: Fixing M.G.s and small Lasers |
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Six hexes isn't exactly a very long range. I think something drastic needs to be done about machine guns and small lasers. I've played in so many scenario's where i've used those weapons once in the entire game. There's also realism; as it stands these weapons have a maximum effective range of only ninety meters.
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Seraph
Blighted Sun Battalion
2nd Company
"Seraph's Slaughter"
Major
Joined: 11-Mar-2004 00:00
Posts: 1744
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| Posted: 12-Mar-2004 17:30 Post subject: RE: Fixing M.G.s and small Lasers |
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Personally I'm fine with the ranges as they stand. The short ranges reflect the small size and low power use of the weapons. They are good for infantry also they are good for firing on those who like to close for melee combat.
If you want a longer range weapon then remove the smalls and mg's and mount a larger weapon. My friend designed a bruiser with 24 small lasers and a C3 command unit, it was 100 tons, max armor for it's size and had masc and jumptjets(4-6-4(8)). I laughed at first then watched it destroy a battlemaster and a marauder while it's lance mates destroyed an awesome and an atlas. I was impressed.
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ralgith
Blighted Sun Battalion
1st Company
"Ralgith's Renegades"
Colonel
Joined: 18-Aug-2003 00:00
Posts: 2021
Location: United States
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| Posted: 12-Mar-2004 18:59 Post subject: RE: Fixing M.G.s and small Lasers |
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I think that they are just fine as is. The effective range on the laser is because the coherent light will lose cohesion after a certain distance, and a low power laser will do so faster. Thus if you increase range, you need to increase heat to generation due to higher power needs, which is exactly what happens with ER lasers As for the MGs, well, what do you expect? 90 meters is a long dang way.
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Blighted Sun Battalion
1st Company 'Ralgith's Renegades'
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Motown Scrapper
Clan Ice Hellions
Galaxy Commander
Joined: 24-Jul-2003 00:00
Posts: 2074
Location: United States
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| Posted: 12-Mar-2004 19:21 Post subject: RE: Fixing M.G.s and small Lasers |
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You know the guys in my group would not like that idea at all .I already tear the snot out of people with my small laser boats.the ranges of these weapons is quite appropriate.Just ask any body who has had the misfourtion of facing them.
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-Mud
ex-Jade Falcon
Bounty Hunter
Joined: 04-Nov-2003 00:00
Posts: 1082
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| Posted: 12-Mar-2004 23:02 Post subject: RE: Fixing M.G.s and small Lasers |
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Well, if you must abuse the rule, that would certainly be the way...
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js
Federated Suns
Sergeant-Major
Joined: 25-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 125
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| Posted: 13-Mar-2004 02:33 Post subject: RE: Fixing M.G.s and small Lasers |
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| Your proposed changes make the Clan ERSL into a real killer. Half the weight and 2/3 the heat of the ML for the same damage? Wow! That's a huge gain. The other changes would make MG's and SL's much more useful, but in the hands of someone like Motown perhaps too useful?
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Motown Scrapper
Clan Ice Hellions
Galaxy Commander
Joined: 24-Jul-2003 00:00
Posts: 2074
Location: United States
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| Posted: 13-Mar-2004 02:47 Post subject: RE: Fixing M.G.s and small Lasers |
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As much as I love Small lasers and MGs especially the Clan light MG I have to agree that the rules for them are fine just as they are.If the changes proposed were made Nobody would stand a snowballs chance in hell against me.
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Having more fun than a human being should be allowed to have-Rush Limbaugh www.rushlimbaugh.com
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-Mud
ex-Jade Falcon
Bounty Hunter
Joined: 04-Nov-2003 00:00
Posts: 1082
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| Posted: 13-Mar-2004 12:16 Post subject: RE: Fixing M.G.s and small Lasers |
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Well, as I said before, these rules are designed for people who will not abuse the hell out of them by totally optimizing your 'mech.
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Oafman
Draconis Combine
Tai-sho
Joined: 18-Nov-2003 00:00
Posts: 1657
Location: United States
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| Posted: 13-Mar-2004 15:45 Post subject: RE: Fixing M.G.s and small Lasers |
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You are assuming too much -mud. People will always abuse the rules. Besides, I for one would rather see more discusions about how to utilize mechs how they are rather than 'fixing' what is broken. Sure I have my own versions of the Gausszilla that I have played, but I usually play stock mechs. The challenge of this game is to out smart your opponent. Making changes like extending the range of the MG and small lasers makes the game more into a keep firing and hope that your die rolls will kill your opponent game. This is why I like to see new weapons for specific scernarios rather than re-working the existing system. But enough of my ranting. *Oafman gets off his soapbox*
My last comment would have to be, don't fix the weapon, change your tactics and strategy to better utilize the weapon.
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