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chihawk
Clan Blood Spirit
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Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
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Location: United States
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 Posted: 26-Sep-2004 08:03 Post subject: User Review: Classic BattleTech Record Sheets: MechWarrior Dark Age I |
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On 2004-08-29, jfox61 wrote:
I agree with the above reviewer. I bought these because I ran out of my original sheets and these are awful. What are whizkids doing to BT? Avoid like the plague. Get hold of some old level 2 sheets and get them copied as these are awful
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On 2004-09-23, Boneshaman wrote:
oh why god. why did fasa go under. wizkids is making a mess of BT.
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You both understand that Wizkids isn't doing anything with Battletech, that FanPro is; and that those sheets are conversions from one game to another?
The two games have nothing to do with each other excepting game world/history. If you don't like the product because it sucks that fine--I'm inclined to agree with that. But to whine that Wizkids is ruining Battletech and that's why this product is bad is folly.
My review of both of your reviews is a big THUMBS DOWN.
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Karagin
Imperial Karagin Army
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Location: United States
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| Posted: 26-Sep-2004 14:14 Post subject: RE: User Review: Classic BattleTech Record Sheets: MechWarrior Dark Age I |
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Nice...and I thought all were entitled to their own opinions of both games and how DA bleeds back into CBT...nice to see that what one thinks of the other can be slapped down and thus openning the old can of worms about how folks feel abuot MWDA and the whole CHANGE to the BT universe that game has done.
Do we really need to beat the dead horse into the ground any further? I think the idea that some like MWDA and other hate it with a lot of passion and fire is well established and we don't need to rehash or add to it further.
The two made comments on a single product, they didn't like, so Chihawk what was you point of bringing it here to the boards? Did you want another round of folks bashing MWDA or what?
Just wondering since I can't find any point to this other then posting something to stir folks up.
And seeing how we don't need that kind of stiring up can we leave that stuff wear it belongs please....
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Karagin
Only the dead have seen the end of war. - Plato
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chihawk
Clan Blood Spirit
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| Posted: 26-Sep-2004 14:30 Post subject: RE: User Review: Classic BattleTech Record Sheets: MechWarrior Dark Age I |
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My review is of their reviews, and in both cases their reviews are totally misinformed. I have no problem with them not liking the product, and in fact I added that I was inclined to agree that the product was terrible.
But to blame FASA for going out of business as the reason that product sucked? Or that because another company took over the product line and left CBT as it was as a reason that product sucked?
Sorry, but "no".
You can jump up and down in a "look at me I'm defending all the people that dislike MW:DA and Wizkids" manner until you're blue in the face but it doesn't change the fact, and the fact is that product was terrible for reasons other then those listed by the 2 reviewers.
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Nightmare
Lyran Alliance
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Joined: 03-May-2002 00:00
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| Posted: 26-Sep-2004 15:10 Post subject: RE: User Review: Classic BattleTech Record Sheets: MechWarrior Dark Age I |
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I find that the sheets printed from HmPro look really nice. And I can load the program with a lot of mechs too! 
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Karagin
Imperial Karagin Army
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| Posted: 26-Sep-2004 21:56 Post subject: RE: User Review: Classic BattleTech Record Sheets: MechWarrior Dark Age I |
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You are missing my point, I am saying that you are kicking over the can of worms on the opinions of folks who DON'T like MWDA for any reason and no matter what is said as to WHO or WHOM came up with whole fast forward the BT universe, they won't like anything relating to it.
And by as a few of the younger guys in unit say, dissing their review of the MWDA Record Sheets you are adding to the fire and the thinking that only thing allowed to be said about MWDA are nice and supportive things.
We both know that has been a view held by some and I know I have stated a similar point of view more then once my self, but even I knew that it was my opinion and I tried to back up my POV through game stats and such.
What I am also trying to say is that we don't need another firestorm of who likes or doesn't like MWDA. I agree they didn't have all of the facts, and while it's true that FASA was going to do something, the whole MWDA as it is now is still debated as if that was FASA's original intention or not. So when folks see the current version of DA and given all the old info that was out things do become a tad murky and unclear and thus we have a lot of mistakes as to what is going on and how it's happening.
They slammed the product, fine, you slammed them over their opinion of the product, does that make your actions any better?
On this issue of RS:MWDA I will admit some of the mechs didn't look to bad in BT stats and others well...I wouldn't use them at all. I found it a nice attempt to reach out to the BT players but still I think more is needed to keep the old guard around and allow for the original universe to grow with out having it rushed towards the DA time line, which seems to be happening so I am going with the wait and see.
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Only the dead have seen the end of war. - Plato
"Wasted trip Man. Nobody said nuthin' about lockin' horns with no tigers." Oddball
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chihawk
Clan Blood Spirit
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| Posted: 27-Sep-2004 05:20 Post subject: RE: User Review: Classic BattleTech Record Sheets: MechWarrior Dark Age I |
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On 2004-09-26 21:56, Karagin wrote:
You are missing my point, I am saying that you are kicking over the can of worms on the opinions of folks who DON'T like MWDA for any reason and no matter what is said as to WHO or WHOM came up with whole fast forward the BT universe, they won't like anything relating to it.
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I got your point--your point was that you wish to be the guy at the forefront of defending anyone that hates what TPTB have done. That's your shtick, and you wear it like some sort of badge of honor.
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And by as a few of the younger guys in unit say, dissing their review of the MWDA Record Sheets you are adding to the fire and the thinking that only thing allowed to be said about MWDA are nice and supportive things.
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100% incorrect. In fact, if it were possible to be more than 100% incorrect you'd be that wrong. My position is that the fact that it was a product related to MW:DA has nothing to do with it being a bad product.
It's a bad product because the units are pretty bad, the units don't follow the previously published rules, and the cost wasn't equal to the quality we're used to getting.
None of those things is related to MW:DA, those are CBT reasons why that product was lacking.
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We both know that has been a view held by some and I know I have stated a similar point of view more then once my self, but even I knew that it was my opinion and I tried to back up my POV through game stats and such.
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Hello! That's the reason that the product is bad...as you usually do you've proven my point for me.
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What I am also trying to say is that we don't need another firestorm of who likes or doesn't like MWDA. I agree they didn't have all of the facts, and while it's true that FASA was going to do something, the whole MWDA as it is now is still debated as if that was FASA's original intention or not. So when folks see the current version of DA and given all the old info that was out things do become a tad murky and unclear and thus we have a lot of mistakes as to what is going on and how it's happening.
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As noted above, MW:DA and liking or disliking it has nothing to do with why the RSbook was terrible. And people that use their dislike of MW:DA as a reason to rate a CBT product should be prepared to be told that their basis for opinion has, well, no basis.
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They slammed the product, fine, you slammed them over their opinion of the product, does that make your actions any better?
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I didn't slam them, I reviewed their opinion. That's what the whole reviews "section" is about. Their opinions as to why the product was lacking were baseless.
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On this issue of RS:MWDA I will admit some of the mechs didn't look to bad in BT stats and others well...I wouldn't use them at all. I found it a nice attempt to reach out to the BT players but still I think more is needed to keep the old guard around and allow for the original universe to grow with out having it rushed towards the DA time line, which seems to be happening so I am going with the wait and see.
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I seem to recall you being angry that this product was being released, and I called it "a great business decision". And if they had put out a quality product it would have been.
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Discord
Federated Suns
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Joined: 22-Jul-2003 00:00
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| Posted: 27-Sep-2004 10:17 Post subject: RE: User Review: Classic BattleTech Record Sheets: MechWarrior Dark Age I |
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The only two problems that I had with the book were that :
A. It was too small compared to other RS books, especially for the price.
B. Also unlike other RS books, there was no companion TROs. Even RS:U tied into the latest TROs of the time.
I've used some of the Mechs out of it, and while I don't care for the Zeus mods, some of them kicked some serious tail.
But, that's just my 2 cents.
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Pinhead
The Bloody Clans
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| Posted: 27-Sep-2004 10:34 Post subject: RE: User Review: Classic BattleTech Record Sheets: MechWarrior Dark Age I |
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Chihawk,
My only problem with putting this here, is that those two folks took the time to review the product, and posted their opinions. They have the right to post such there, as I believe that is what the review section is for.
By bringing their reviews here and posting about it, it kind of goes around the whole Review set up.
I haven't even looked at the product, nor do I wish to, but I was very surprised to see this thread here.
Pin
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Karagin
Imperial Karagin Army
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| Posted: 27-Sep-2004 11:27 Post subject: RE: User Review: Classic BattleTech Record Sheets: MechWarrior Dark Age I |
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Once again you missed my point, what I am trying to say is it you who are telling us that if anyone lables an MWDA product that has been crossed over to CBT that they are wrong and I am trying to point out that we don't need that.
If they don't like it for what ever reason then let it rest at that.
First off I don't try to defend anyone, in fact each person here is quite capable of defending themselves. As for my dislike or like of MWDA, the issues I have are wit the story line and HOW they have gone about it. I bought the MWDA recorde sheets, mainly to see if they were done decently, noting that nothing really changed and beyond the ICE mech it was record book and nothing more I added it to my pile of game stuff and went on with life.
You brought the review of two folks who posted their opinion to the boards and then slammed their opinions, I simply asked is this needed? We all know the whole MWDA issue has divided the BT community and so why rehash old arguements?
That is what I am asking is the re-opening of the issue worth it? You don't agree with their opinion aka their review then ignore it and add your own and thus the review process works.
That's my point, nothing else. So can you please stop reading more into this then there is. I am not trying to start an arguement with you or anyone else, in fact I am trying to head off a return to needless arguements over something we can't change. It's that simple.
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Karagin
Only the dead have seen the end of war. - Plato
"Wasted trip Man. Nobody said nuthin' about lockin' horns with no tigers." Oddball
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Havoc~Ronin
Federated Suns
Major
Joined: 13-Nov-2003 00:00
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| Posted: 27-Sep-2004 11:53 Post subject: RE: User Review: Classic BattleTech Record Sheets: MechWarrior Dark Age I |
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Let's not argue and bicker over who killed who...
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chihawk
Clan Blood Spirit
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| Posted: 27-Sep-2004 14:48 Post subject: RE: User Review: Classic BattleTech Record Sheets: MechWarrior Dark Age I |
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On 2004-09-27 10:34, Pinhead wrote:
Chihawk,
My only problem with putting this here, is that those two folks took the time to review the product, and posted their opinions. They have the right to post such there, as I believe that is what the review section is for.
By bringing their reviews here and posting about it, it kind of goes around the whole Review set up.
I haven't even looked at the product, nor do I wish to, but I was very surprised to see this thread here.
Pin
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I suggest you take a look at a few reviews, be it mechs, products, etc...you see that there is a link to start a discussion about a particular review. There are several discussions in the Design Forum about mech reviews, it just so happens that product review discussions are located in this forum.
All I did that was "outside the box"--so to speak--was to press the button on one review, copy the text, and then press the button on the second review and paste the text of the first review into it. I figured one thread was better then two.
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chihawk
Clan Blood Spirit
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| Posted: 27-Sep-2004 14:51 Post subject: RE: User Review: Classic BattleTech Record Sheets: MechWarrior Dark Age I |
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On 2004-09-27 11:27, Karagin wrote:
Once again you missed my point... |
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The rest of your post is meaningless as I have responded to every point you've made already.
This has nothing to do with people liking or disliking MW:DA, it has to do with people using their opinion(s) of MW:DA as a reason to hate a CBT product.
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chihawk
Clan Blood Spirit
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| Posted: 27-Sep-2004 15:29 Post subject: RE: User Review: Classic BattleTech Record Sheets: MechWarrior Dark Age I |
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On 2004-09-27 10:17, Discord wrote:
But, that's just my 2 cents.
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And I think you're dead on in your assessment...it was a product that compares badly with other like CBT products.
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Ruger
Lyran Alliance
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| Posted: 27-Sep-2004 18:40 Post subject: RE: User Review: Classic BattleTech Record Sheets: MechWarrior Dark Age I |
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It's a bad product because the units are pretty bad, the units don't follow the previously published rules
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How so? The only ones that don't "follow previously published rules" might be the ICE powered designs...are there others to which you refer?
Ruger
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chihawk
Clan Blood Spirit
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Location: United States
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| Posted: 27-Sep-2004 19:52 Post subject: RE: User Review: Classic BattleTech Record Sheets: MechWarrior Dark Age I |
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On 2004-09-27 18:40, Ruger wrote:
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It's a bad product because the units are pretty bad, the units don't follow the previously published rules
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How so? The only ones that don't "follow previously published rules" might be the ICE powered designs...are there others to which you refer?
Ruger
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Bingo...
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