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Wanallo
Federated Suns
Leftenant Colonel
Joined: 02-Jan-2004 00:00
Posts: 671
Location: United Kingdom
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 Posted: 24-Mar-2005 06:21 Post subject: User Review: Renegade REN-1 |
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On 2005-03-17, Blackhand wrote:
Sorry, I'm just not seeing it. To upgrade the vunerable 3-4 million dollar house mechs they are going to spend roughly 9 million a mech. Multiplied by roughly at least a lance per regiment. Thats a lot of c-bills for a design that adds vulnerabilities for a bit more firepower.
I can't ever see this mech making it to 2nd line and garrison units as its tech base is hurting in 3067. Front line only is where this unit is pegged.
For believers in the grouped weapons fire system, this mech has a heat sink or two more than it needs and a lack of long range fire power to help out when the armour gets thin and its forced to dance to survive.
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Well the idea i got was that while damaged, the Davion economy was still ok, but the military had been so devastated that new mechs were needed to replace the older ones. At this time thehouses were using XL's on nearly every mech developed because.
A: It pushed the technology forwards, making them better (hence tech level 3)
B: from my own testing. I have duked it out with and won against many tech level 1 mechs up to the wieght of 65 tons these include
Whitworth
Centurion
Dragon
Enforcer
Catapult
Thunderbolt (ok this guy was beaten by lucky rolls he he)
But i think that XL engines do add alot of new ideas to the game. OK you can build two Enforcers to one Renegade, but when your building Enforcers anyway and need something a little more special, what the hell?
Other than what i've said which i know isnt a strong argument, I ver much appreciate your criticisms, XL's are expensive, and can sometime slead to early deaths, but i think are underestimated,
And the fact that i designed one without the XL and it was basically a Centurion, tech one has some decent mechs but its hard to design something unique or different.
_________________
Constant exposure to dangers will breed contempt for them-Seneca
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Blackhand
Draconis Combine
Chu-i
Joined: 05-Jul-2002 00:00
Posts: 334
Location: Canada
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| Posted: 24-Mar-2005 06:36 Post subject: RE: User Review: Renegade REN-1 |
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well on the production of XLs on every mech. Only 3 "groups" do that. Comstar/WoB, Marik, Clans. Everyone makes do. In 3060 I think it is Kurita releases a new atlas with a standard engine as an example. All kinds of mechs are standard engined despite a later year release.
The Guillotine upgrade is especially true.
As for Davion in 3067. Thats after the civil war. They're full bore producing to replace RCTs worth of mechs. They don't really come up with a single modification to they're production lines until the end of the universe/new production facilities open.
As for your wins how would you like to field your Renegade against a some cannon level 1 designs in mega mek. About my only mech I've done up in the 55 ton range is a tech 1 Shadow Hawk upgrade, which I'd also enjoy piloting against your renegade.
Although you'll have to tell me which version of megamek you use if you wish to play.
[ This Message was edited by: Blackhand on 2005-03-24 06:45 ]
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Karagin
Imperial Karagin Army
Imperial General
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 4120
Location: United States
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| Posted: 24-Mar-2005 09:27 Post subject: RE: User Review: Renegade REN-1 |
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Quote:
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On 2005-03-24 06:36, Blackhand wrote:
well on the production of XLs on every mech. Only 3 "groups" do that. Comstar/WoB, Marik, Clans. Everyone makes do. In 3060 I think it is Kurita releases a new atlas with a standard engine as an example. All kinds of mechs are standard engined despite a later year release.
The Guillotine upgrade is especially true.
As for Davion in 3067. Thats after the civil war. They're full bore producing to replace RCTs worth of mechs. They don't really come up with a single modification to they're production lines until the end of the universe/new production facilities open.
As for your wins how would you like to field your Renegade against a some cannon level 1 designs in mega mek. About my only mech I've done up in the 55 ton range is a tech 1 Shadow Hawk upgrade, which I'd also enjoy piloting against your renegade.
Although you'll have to tell me which version of megamek you use if you wish to play.
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You may want to look in the original TRO3055, in there just about all of the IS mechs have XL engines and tons of new toys, and a lot of the mechs are either Davion or Stiener who at the time were the FedCom, so they Davions have the factories to make XL engines for their mechs. And a lot of the newer models in use by Davion have XL engines in them. So it's not a far stretch to see something come out of the FedSuns with an XL.
_________________
Karagin
Only the dead have seen the end of war. - Plato
"Wasted trip Man. Nobody said nuthin' about lockin' horns with no tigers." Oddball
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Blackhand
Draconis Combine
Chu-i
Joined: 05-Jul-2002 00:00
Posts: 334
Location: Canada
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| Posted: 24-Mar-2005 14:33 Post subject: RE: User Review: Renegade REN-1 |
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27/37 to be exact. Broken down by who makes them
FC ALM-7D Fireball
FC ZPH-1A Tarantula (Nobody willing to pilot it, not even dispossed mechwarriors)
FC Space BH-K305 BattleHawk (Note this was produced before it ever got a contract, does anyone know if it was ever picked up by any nation)
FC SCB-9A Scarabus
FC STH-1D Stealth
FC NGS-4S Nightsky
FC FLC-8R Falconer
FC MDG-1A Rakshasa (FOUR per year, will ramp up to SIX hopefully in next couple years)
FC PPR-5S Salamander (Implies 12 per year)
FC BRZ-A3 Berserker
DCMS/FC GUN-1ERD Gunslinger
DCMS HM-1 Hitman
DCMS SDR-9K Venom
DCMS KIM-2 Komodo (7.7 mill) (someone used use this mech as an example of a BattleArmour hunter saying it was lighter and cheaper than my Barghast (7.0 mill)
DCMS DAI-01 Daikyu
Comstar/DCMS GRM-R-PR29 Grim Reaper
CC SNK-1V Snake
CC HUR-WO-R4L Huron Warrior
CC THR-1L Thunder
FWL TR1-Wraith
FWL TMP-3M Tempest
FWL HRC-LS-9000 Hercules
FWL ALB-3U Albatross
FWL/Wobble MR-V2 Cerberus
Independents selling to Liao/Marik JA-KL-1532 Jackel
Independents selling to anyone BNDR-01A Bandersnatch (ONE per TEN months)
Independents selling to anyone WR-DG-02FC War Dog
Independents selling to Marik/anyone else T-IT-N10M Grand Titan
Roughly half of those new FC XL engined designs are corner case. Only six of them are in mass production.
The DCMS has four in mass production.
The CC has three in mass production.
The FWL has four in mass production.
Thats it for the 3055 original book. So yeah 19 of the 27 mass produced designs are in serious production from what I understand.
That is a fair number I'll agree, but compared to the massive number of production plants across the IS its minimal.
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Oafman
Draconis Combine
Tai-sho
Joined: 18-Nov-2003 00:00
Posts: 1657
Location: United States
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| Posted: 24-Mar-2005 14:49 Post subject: RE: User Review: Renegade REN-1 |
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There is still a big difference between minimal and none. With the new and refits mechs being produced in 3055, I see nothing wrong with stating in the fluff of a custom mech that it is a new design. Aren't many of the ones that you just listed new models?
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Festina Lente!
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Wanallo
Federated Suns
Leftenant Colonel
Joined: 02-Jan-2004 00:00
Posts: 671
Location: United Kingdom
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| Posted: 24-Mar-2005 18:36 Post subject: RE: User Review: Renegade REN-1 |
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Seems like i've caused an argument, but it just seemed like you marked it down purely on fluff. Apart from the XL and heat sinks, there isnt much of a mention of the mech or its abilities. Which if i do say so myself are pretty impressive. As its a mech i designed right at the start of my gaming and have tweaked for over two years.
_________________
Constant exposure to dangers will breed contempt for them-Seneca
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Wanallo
Federated Suns
Leftenant Colonel
Joined: 02-Jan-2004 00:00
Posts: 671
Location: United Kingdom
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| Posted: 24-Mar-2005 18:37 Post subject: RE: User Review: Renegade REN-1 |
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God listen to myself i sound like a crybaby just upset because he got a poor rating. 
_________________
Constant exposure to dangers will breed contempt for them-Seneca
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Karagin
Imperial Karagin Army
Imperial General
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 4120
Location: United States
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| Posted: 24-Mar-2005 19:28 Post subject: RE: User Review: Renegade REN-1 |
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Quote:
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On 2005-03-24 14:33, Blackhand wrote:That is a fair number I'll agree, but compared to the massive number of production plants across the IS its minimal.
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The piont is they can make XL engines among other things, and given that they need mechs, I don't see it to far fetched. And also if you look in TR3067, again more Davion mechs with XLs so while it might not be the main supplier of XL fusion engines they do have them.
_________________
Karagin
Only the dead have seen the end of war. - Plato
"Wasted trip Man. Nobody said nuthin' about lockin' horns with no tigers." Oddball
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Blackhand
Draconis Combine
Chu-i
Joined: 05-Jul-2002 00:00
Posts: 334
Location: Canada
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| Posted: 24-Mar-2005 21:32 Post subject: RE: User Review: Renegade REN-1 |
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Meat and Potatoes chart time take friggin two. I was half way through it when the browser crashed.
Renegade REN-1. 5/8, XL, 12 tons Basic, ES, ECM, 12 Doubles
ER Large, LRM 15 (2t), 3 ER Medium, SSRM 6 (1t)
Long range average 17 (16 Endurance)
Short range average 27 (15 Endurance)
10,534,006 C-bills.
Centurion CN9-A. 4/6, 8.5 tons Basic, 10 singles
AC 10 (2t), LRM 10 (2t), 2 Medium Laser
Long range average 16 (20 Endurance)
Short range average 5 (Unlimited) Rear firing weaponry make this kinda useless
3,419,500 C-bills.
Centurion CN9-D3, 6/11 XL, TSM, 8.5 tons Basic, ES, 10 Single
LB 10X (2t), LRM 10 art IV (2t), 2 Medium Laser
Long range average 18 or 14 (20 Endurance)
Short range average 5 (Unlimited)
10,714,500 C-bills.
Lineholder KW1-LH2. 5/8, 10 tons Basic, 14 Singles
Large Laser, 2 LRM 5 (2t), 4 Medium Laser
Long range average 16 (24 Endurance)
Short range average 20 (unlimited)
4,515,666 C-bills.
Shadow Hawk SHD-5D, 5/8/5, 9.5 tons FF, ES, 10 Doubles
RAC 5 (2t), 2 Medium Laser, SSRM 4 (1t) (Case)
Long range average 10-30 (20-7) (lord do I hate trying to accurately rate RACs)
Short range average 18 (25 Endurance)
5,623,606 C-bills.
Griffin GRF-6S, 5/8/5, Light engine, 12 tons Basic, ES, 10 Doubles
ER PPC, LRM 15 artIV (2t), 2 ER Medium (Case)
Long range average 22 (16 Endurance)
Short range average 10 (Unlimited) or 15 if you mix ER PPC and ER Medium/stand still
9,155,540 C-bills.
Shadow Hawk SHD-4K, 5/8/3, 10 tons basic, ES, 11 Doubles (My custom 55 tonner)
ER PPC, LRM 5 (1t), 4 ER Mediums, 2 SSRM 2s (1t).
Long range average 14 (24 Endurance)
Short range average 23 (25 Endurance) 28 if you push 2 heat
5,516,656 C-bills.
Okay about the averages, everything hits every round till it runs out of ammo, missile systems that aren't streaks roll 7s on the missile hit table.
I picked these mech designs to showcase against yours trying to get a wide range of things, that have roughly the same niche. We've got two 3067 designs, my 3050+ refit, a 3050 design, and two 3025 design all in the same capability range sort of.
You can draw your conclusions from the list I've made, these are mine.
1. SHD-4K
2. KW1-LH2
3. SHD-5D
4. GRF-6S
5. REN-1
6. CN9-A
7. CN9-D3
The REN-1 is more effective than the stock upgrade for the Centurions as they're poorly upgraded but the XL still sticks in my craw. I'd take a standard CN9 over the REN-1 most days because its cheaper, despite the upgrade in fire power the REN-1.
Hopefully, this shows that I did consider its capabilities and tried to match it up against cannon designs to figure out its exact skills.
Also your fluff says Centurion, Enforcer. Looking over the other mechs like yours, you should have picked say 5/8s who could keep pace with you for maximum effectiveness. Its more a move to try and build on the Shadow Hawk, Griffin, Wolverine line than anything involving the Centurion and Enforcer.
(note this is just my person opinion after doing up that chart, it has nothing to do with the rating. Except I just thought about it and thought I should point it out)
[ This Message was edited by: Blackhand on 2005-03-24 21:51 ]
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Vagabond
Mercenary
Mr. Referee
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 5793
Location: United States
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| Posted: 25-Mar-2005 00:20 Post subject: RE: User Review: Renegade REN-1 |
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one monkey rench to throw into this argument... a factory can only produce X number of units per quarter, which begs the question: despit the CN9 costing about half as much, can factories produce 2 CN9s for every REN?
If not, then is it worth it to produce a less powerfull less expensive battlemech in its place?
An interesting question indeed me thinks.
_________________
one must work hard to cultivate the mind and body. and one must always cultivate the mind.
//^(^_^)^\\
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