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SaberDance
Federated Suns
Colonel
Joined: 07-May-2004 00:00
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 Posted: 19-Apr-2005 23:29 Post subject: New Pope |
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No one's brought it up, but since we had the farewell thread, I thought I'd mention it.
They elected a new Pope today. Josef Cardinal Ratzinger of Germany. Now Pope Benedict XVI.
I post no further comment except that I hope he's good for the Catholic Church.
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Erenon
Blighted Sun Battalion
2nd Company
"Seraph's Slaughter"
Sergeant
Joined: 04-Jun-2004 00:00
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Location: Singapore
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| Posted: 19-Apr-2005 23:44 Post subject: RE: New Pope |
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Good luck is all that i can say.. this should really be in the Salon though..
Or rather it could degenerate fast enough for it to be moved there..
[ This Message was edited by: Erenon on 2005-04-19 23:45 ]
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Sleeping Dragon
Draconis Combine
Tai-i
Joined: 06-Apr-2005 00:00
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Location: Czech Republic
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| Posted: 20-Apr-2005 04:10 Post subject: RE: New Pope |
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I agree with Erenon, this topic is Saloon topic.
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Warhammer: 3025
Freelance
Captain, AFFC (Ret.)
Joined: 29-Jan-2005 00:00
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| Posted: 20-Apr-2005 04:20 Post subject: RE: New Pope |
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Since I'm not allowed in the Saloon yet, I'll just say that I hope he does well.
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Talen
Capellan Confederation
Sang-shao
Joined: 05-Feb-2002 00:00
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Location: United States
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| Posted: 20-Apr-2005 14:36 Post subject: RE: New Pope |
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To make it even more of a Saloon topic...
He was a Hitler Youth...
Not that it means anything.
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"Historians exercise great power and some of them know it. They recreate the past, changing it to fit their own interpretations. Thus, they change the future as well." - Leto II
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SaberDance
Federated Suns
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Joined: 07-May-2004 00:00
Posts: 837
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| Posted: 20-Apr-2005 16:06 Post subject: RE: New Pope |
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Does anyone else find it sad that we can't recognize that the RCC elected a new Pope without degenerating into Saloon bickering? I mean, we can be partially civil, right?
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"Politics is the Art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, misdiagnosing the problem, and applying the wrong solution."
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chihawk
Clan Blood Spirit
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| Posted: 20-Apr-2005 16:12 Post subject: RE: New Pope |
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Quote:
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On 2005-04-20 14:36, Talen wrote:
To make it even more of a Saloon topic...
He was a Hitler Youth...
Not that it means anything.
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It doesn't mean anything as there were two choices: become one or risk being killed.
While certainly not to the extent of others, Roman Catholics were persecuted by the Nazis.
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Talen
Capellan Confederation
Sang-shao
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Location: United States
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| Posted: 20-Apr-2005 17:30 Post subject: RE: New Pope |
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Those sound like fighting words!
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"Historians exercise great power and some of them know it. They recreate the past, changing it to fit their own interpretations. Thus, they change the future as well." - Leto II
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Talen
Capellan Confederation
Sang-shao
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| Posted: 20-Apr-2005 17:30 Post subject: RE: New Pope |
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And if I remember right, the Hitler Youth was something akin to the BSA at first?
But yeah...like we said. It doesnt matter.
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"Historians exercise great power and some of them know it. They recreate the past, changing it to fit their own interpretations. Thus, they change the future as well." - Leto II
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Motown Scrapper
Clan Ice Hellions
Galaxy Commander
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Location: United States
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| Posted: 20-Apr-2005 20:34 Post subject: RE: New Pope |
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Well considering that the Isrealis are looking forward to him being Pope I think that issue can safely be put to rest.
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chihawk
Clan Blood Spirit
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| Posted: 20-Apr-2005 20:35 Post subject: RE: New Pope |
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Quote:
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On 2005-04-20 17:30, Talen wrote:
And if I remember right, the Hitler Youth was something akin to the BSA at first?
But yeah...like we said. It doesnt matter.
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I think the BSA is the comparison most use...
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Gunslinger Patch
Royal Black Watch Regiment
Major
Joined: 04-Mar-2002 00:00
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| Posted: 20-Apr-2005 23:16 Post subject: RE: New Pope |
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Hitler created the Hitler Youth to train up new hardcore nazis from boyhood, a long term kind of thing. They did boy scout stuff, but the real goal of the organisation was to turn boys into true believer Nazis through brainwashing. As with all such groups, such as the similar groups in communist countries, it works on some and don't work on others. Also, though many joined, not all of them showed up regular for the meetings if you see what I mean. Just like many joined the Nazi party or the communist party in Russia, because not doing so would have hurt them socially/career wise.
There were various other boys groups in Germany, social groups, catholic youth groups, a german version of boy scouts, etc. But after Hitler took power, he ordered them all disbanded, leaving only the Hitler Youth, and either required that all boys be in it, or that there would be penalties for refusing to join, I forget which.
I read a post last night, an interview with the then still a cardinal Pontiff where he talked about it. Apparently refusing to be registered with the Hitler Youth was somewhat akin to an American not registering for selective service, as in No Pell Grant, and other govt things that are denied to those who won't register. Except of course that the Nazis wouls have been a good bit more vindictive about refusers then the average US govt. employee.
At the time he was trying to get into a seminary school, and not registering would have hurt him on the tuition. And likely put him on a Nazi watch list, since his father was a known dissident.
The London Times claimed he was Hitler Youth, which the Jerusalem Post debunked with this:
Ratzinger has several times gone on record on his supposedly "problematic" past. In the 1997 book Salt of the Earth, Ratzinger is asked whether he was ever in the Hitler Youth.
"At first we weren't," he says, speaking of himself and his older brother, "but when the compulsory Hitler Youth was introduced in 1941, my brother was obliged to join. I was still too young, but later as a seminarian, I was registered in the Hitler Youth. As soon as I was out of the seminary, I never went back. And that was difficult because the tuition reduction, which I really needed, was tied to proof of attendance at the Hitler Youth.
"Thank goodness there was a very understanding mathematics professor. He himself was a Nazi, but an honest man, and said to me, 'Just go once to get the document so we have it...' When he saw that I simply didn't want to, he said, 'I understand, I'll take care of it' and so I was able to stay free of it."
The Pontif was also a member of the German Army during the war, I found this in a post on a different blog:
Quote
And if the biographies are to be believed that Ratzinger's father was anti-Nazi, wow. Then for him in April, 1944 to desert the German Army; shows Ratzinger had courage because being the son of a known malcontent, it would either be Eastern Front or execution by the SS if recaptured.
Interesting March 31, 1944 in Hungary the Jews are made to wear the Star of David. April 29, 1944, the first deportation from Hungary to Berkenau takes place. Eventually reacing 13,000 a day. I wonder if these events had any impact on Ratzinger deserting?
Unquote
I might add to that... D-Day was the beginning of June, Ratzinger deserted the German Army about 2 months before D-Day happened (I remind you that even the Allies were not certain the invasion would succeed.) In other words, at a time when many Germans still believed that Germany would not be totally defeated but would wind up negociating a peace somehow without the Allies ever getting into Germany itself.
I don't myself think he would have been sent to the Eastern Front if he had been caught. I think they would have shot him. The US Army had more deserters then most people know about, during the Bulge there were more then a few deserters roaming about in Paris, when caught they were normally just sent back to the front, the US Army only shot one guy in the whole war for desertion. You might say the Germans were either a lot more serious or a lot more liberal then us when it came to shooting deserters or various other rulebreakers.
I have read various versions of why the liberals don't like this guy and how he was a wrong choice. yet another blog post summed up all his critics the best I think.
"I mean, who would have guessed that the Church would have had the unmitigated gall to select a CATHOLIC as the next pope?
Have they no shame?
Hehe. I guess they were supposed to elect Jimmy Carter?
[ This Message was edited by: Gunslinger Patch on 2005-04-20 23:22 ]
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Talen
Capellan Confederation
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| Posted: 21-Apr-2005 00:22 Post subject: RE: New Pope |
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hahaha! Thanks for the post man.
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"Historians exercise great power and some of them know it. They recreate the past, changing it to fit their own interpretations. Thus, they change the future as well." - Leto II
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SaberDance
Federated Suns
Colonel
Joined: 07-May-2004 00:00
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| Posted: 21-Apr-2005 21:54 Post subject: RE: New Pope |
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One of my Catholic friends commented that it could have been worse.
They could have gotten one of the Domine Canes (dominicans) instead of just the German Shepherd.
Apparently, some of the monastic orders are pretty severe and have a habit of being even more severe if they are elected to the papacy.
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"Politics is the Art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, misdiagnosing the problem, and applying the wrong solution."
-Groucho Marx
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Erenon
Blighted Sun Battalion
2nd Company
"Seraph's Slaughter"
Sergeant
Joined: 04-Jun-2004 00:00
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Location: Singapore
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| Posted: 21-Apr-2005 23:47 Post subject: RE: New Pope |
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Or like my wife said they could have made a statement by electing a non-white pope who would probably have put more effort into doing something for the third world countries.
No offense to the white folk here.
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"My job is to keep the majority of people in this country alive. That's it. If fifty-one percent eat a meal tomorrow and forty-nine percent don't, I've done my job." - The Beast (AKA The President), Transmetropolitan
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