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Karagin
Imperial Karagin Army
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 Posted: 30-Jul-2005 15:10 Post subject: Operation Scorpion and it's Aftermath |
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Okay, here is something I think we can toss around and discuss, what would have happen to ComStar IF the FedCom refused to hand over some of the HPGs that it took control of when it found about Operation Scorpion?
Would they (ComStar) have attacked the FedCom to get them back or would they have come to an agreement or trade of something the FedCom wanted to get the stations back? Or would they have cut the stations out of the network and written them off?
Also if the FedCom got to keep these stations what would it mean for them in the long run?
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Karagin
Only the dead have seen the end of war. - Plato
"Wasted trip Man. Nobody said nuthin' about lockin' horns with no tigers." Oddball
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StarRaven
Federated Suns
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| Posted: 30-Jul-2005 19:02 Post subject: RE: Operation Scorpion and it's Aftermath |
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The FedCom military got hammered in the Clan invasion, but it still remained quite intact. The ComGuards were shattered on Tukayyid, and harmed still more by the Wobbly defectors. I think that the combination of chaos in the ranks of ComStar and damage to the ComGuards would have made military confrontation a losing proposition for ComStar. And recall that Anastasus (sp) Focht is Precentor Martial. Like little Victor, he sees the Clans as the overriding threat, and would so be reluctant to waste his strength fighting the FedCom. That's the same reason that ComStar left the Wobblies' capture of Terra unopposed, and look what came of that.
And don't forget that Melissa was running the show then. And that the FedCom and Combine were on somewhat friendly terms. If ComStar did go the military path (though it seems unlikely), Melissa certainly had the gumption to coax the Dracs into helping against ComStar with the promise of a jointly-developed HPG; especially if she agreed that the FedCom would foot most of the bill, which might have been necessary to get the Dracs to bite. I don't see ComStar winning against that.
ComStar's most likely tactic would have been your second suggestion: coming to an agreement of some sort on trade or something. Perhaps realm wide HPG discounts, as well. The FedCom might have demanded military aid/technology, but Melissa doesn't seem the type to push too hard. I'm not sure whether the FedCom would have gone with a deal, but ComStar would certainly have tried.
The feasibility of cutting those stations captured by the FedCom out of the net depends on how many were captured. If they captured a lot of them, then ComStar wouldn't be able to cut those stations loose without isolating the other three realms from one another, and isolating themselves from their own command. Only the FedCom and Combine have worlds within 50 light years (HPG range) of Terra. Any ComStar personnel outside of the Combine would be essentially out of contact. You'd have to send messages through the Combine and along the Periphery to contact the Confederation or League without FedCom permission. That could add months to communication times. Unless, that is, there's an HPG on a FedCom world between Terra and the Confederation and/or League which ComStar keeps a hold of; but there's no way to know if that would or would not occur. And the FedCom would certainly want to make sure that it didn't.
In the end, I feel that either
A) ComStar would have to negotiate a deal which was very advantageous indeed for the FedCom to get those HPGs back, or
B) The FedCom keeps the HPGs, at least for a while.
If the FedCom managed it, the most obvious long term effect of keeping the HPGs would be development of the FedCom's own HPG technology. This would free them from dependence on ComStar and give them secure communications. Without the leverage of ComStar Inderdiction, and without needing to rely on the slower black boxes under such circumstances, the FedCom would be able to do most anything it wanted, regardless of ComStar's approval. Nor do I see the FedCom ever coming apart if it managed to achieve such a thing. And it could potentially make lots of money by offering people lower HPG rates than ComStar could.
From there, things can go in all sorts of directions. Including the direction of First Lord Melissa Steiner-Davion, although I don't suppose that the writers would've let that one happen.
Now that we're thinking about it, why in the hell did the FedCom relinquish those HPGs? Seems like a stupid thing to have done, really. I'll bet it was little Victor's idea.
[ This Message was edited by: StarRaven on 2005-07-30 19:04 ]
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Karagin
Imperial Karagin Army
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| Posted: 30-Jul-2005 20:41 Post subject: RE: Operation Scorpion and it's Aftermath |
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On 2005-07-30 19:02, StarRaven wrote:
Now that we're thinking about it, why in the hell did the FedCom relinquish those HPGs? Seems like a stupid thing to have done, really. I'll bet it was little Victor's idea.
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More like Melissa's idea, she was in charge after Hanse died, and she knew WHO Focht was really and think she felt that he and the new Primus could do a lot for ComStar and IS as a whole.
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Karagin
Only the dead have seen the end of war. - Plato
"Wasted trip Man. Nobody said nuthin' about lockin' horns with no tigers." Oddball
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Kalo Osis
Clan Ice Hellions
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| Posted: 30-Jul-2005 20:44 Post subject: RE: Operation Scorpion and it's Aftermath |
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It doesn't matter who gave up those HPGs, what matters is they did. It was foolhardy to give up such an advantage.
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StarRaven
Federated Suns
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| Posted: 30-Jul-2005 21:43 Post subject: RE: Operation Scorpion and it's Aftermath |
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On 2005-07-30 20:41, Karagin wrote:
More like Melissa's idea, she was in charge after Hanse died, and she knew WHO Focht was really and think she felt that he and the new Primus could do a lot for ComStar and IS as a whole.
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I suppose it was her idea. Not that it makes it any better.
But why do you say that Melissa knew who Focht was? I didn't think that anyone knew, except Myndo Waterly, and later Phelan Kell (who told Ulric Kerensky).
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Karagin
Imperial Karagin Army
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| Posted: 30-Jul-2005 22:59 Post subject: RE: Operation Scorpion and it's Aftermath |
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In the novel LOST DESTINY Focht tells Waterly that he was able to send a message to his cousin on New Avalon and she was able to reply, or something close to that. This comes out when Waterly is showing Focht the sand table setup/display of the battles on Tyukiad and bragging/gloating about her operation that will reduce the Inner Sphere and let ComStar lead the way to a new birth and awaking etc...
So that is where I am getting it from, also Phelan figured out WHO Focht was and I think Morgan Kell knows as well.
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Karagin
Only the dead have seen the end of war. - Plato
"Wasted trip Man. Nobody said nuthin' about lockin' horns with no tigers." Oddball
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Nightmare
Lyran Alliance
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| Posted: 31-Jul-2005 00:31 Post subject: RE: Operation Scorpion and it's Aftermath |
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On 2005-07-30 20:44, Kalo Osis wrote:
It doesn't matter who gave up those HPGs, what matters is they did. It was foolhardy to give up such an advantage.
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What advantage? A bunch of HPG stations filled with technology you know nothing about, and Comstar personnel indoctrinated to not tell you a thing about using the stuff. Where are the scientists who are going to figure this out for you? They're busy creating new weapons for killing clanners, that's what. 
The FedCom would really shoot themself in the foot by keeping those stations. They NEED all the communications and trade they can get immediately, not in twenty years when they've figured out how to build HPGs.
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Kalo Osis
Clan Ice Hellions
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| Posted: 31-Jul-2005 11:40 Post subject: RE: Operation Scorpion and it's Aftermath |
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Good point Nightmare, they do not know how to work those HPGs.
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Karagin
Imperial Karagin Army
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| Posted: 31-Jul-2005 14:46 Post subject: RE: Operation Scorpion and it's Aftermath |
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One would think NAIS would be all over keeping at least one of the HPG stations mainly to figure out how to make them, as for not knowing how to make them work, the FedCom might get that info from the Dragoons or from Phelan later on.
Still it does seem a lot on the odd side that they turned them over so fast, with really next to nothing shown game setting wise in return.
NAIS is big enough to have more then weapons programs going on, so having the acess to the HPGs as well as the Black Boxes they did have, one would think they would be showing something by now...
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Karagin
Only the dead have seen the end of war. - Plato
"Wasted trip Man. Nobody said nuthin' about lockin' horns with no tigers." Oddball
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Nightmare
Lyran Alliance
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| Posted: 01-Aug-2005 00:20 Post subject: RE: Operation Scorpion and it's Aftermath |
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We can think about the situation from the safety of our chairs. The rulers of the FedCom had a real war going on with the clanners and nothing to spare for conflict with anyone else.
Nothing to show? I'd think Melissa turned over the HPG stations once Comstar proved it was still firmly on the side of the Inner Sphere. A working HPG net to help the IS fight the clans was worth more than aggravating Comstar.
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Karagin
Imperial Karagin Army
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| Posted: 01-Aug-2005 06:44 Post subject: RE: Operation Scorpion and it's Aftermath |
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Aggravating them? How? They had no army, it got mauled on Tykuiad, it was going through defections and internal realinment and just tried to take over certain parts of the FedCom via Waterly's dellusional plot.
Some how ticking of ComStar wasn't something the FC had to worry about. Keep a group on side that was at best a fair weather ally and at worse more of a threat then the Clans, really never made sense to me. Yet some how (aka writers having their favorites) they do hand over the HPG stations they took and seem to have gotten nothing for it.
Now keeping ComStar around might have been a good thing in the short term but look at the long term issues, WoB, the Jihad etc...I am willing to bet that and this is from looking at it in the universe setting, if Hanse still lived say two or three years longer he would not have handed over all of the stations and kept at least one for NAIS to study.
And NAIS was and is huge, they might be focused on the Clans, but that doesn't mean they wouldn't have folks working on better communications both local and interstellar, so getting their hands on an HPG even for a short time frame would be important to them.
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Karagin
Only the dead have seen the end of war. - Plato
"Wasted trip Man. Nobody said nuthin' about lockin' horns with no tigers." Oddball
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Sleeping Dragon
Draconis Combine
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| Posted: 01-Aug-2005 08:35 Post subject: RE: Operation Scorpion and it's Aftermath |
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As it was said before, neither CS nor FC were willing to fight, but FC would win. I doubt that ComStar was able to fight their way to all stations and interdict...
Well, calling for interdict over whole FC would be bad idea. During 4th war the ComStar was united, but this time there was another group that might take over communications, if the FC was desperate enough.
So it would be trade.
The NAIS may be able to figure out how the HPGs work, but it would take some time. Time desperately needed to devote to clan war. It depends on information contained in Grey Death core, but if there was something about HPGs the FC would try to get their hands on HPG technology before.
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Nightmare
Lyran Alliance
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| Posted: 01-Aug-2005 10:25 Post subject: RE: Operation Scorpion and it's Aftermath |
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On 2005-08-01 06:44, Karagin wrote:
Aggravating them? How? They had no army, it got mauled on Tykuiad, it was going through defections and internal realinment and just tried to take over certain parts of the FedCom via Waterly's delusional plot. |
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And the Comguards had just fought the clans to a standstill, making them promise to stop the assault for a long time. How do you figure that is "nothing" to return those HPG stations for?
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Vagabond
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| Posted: 01-Aug-2005 16:57 Post subject: RE: Operation Scorpion and it's Aftermath |
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And NAIS was and is huge, they might be focused on the Clans, but that doesn't mean they wouldn't have folks working on better communications both local and interstellar, so getting their hands on an HPG even for a short time frame would be important to them.
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Call it a Coast Guard Safty Inspection or something. Anything. lol.
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SaberDance
Federated Suns
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| Posted: 16-Aug-2005 06:38 Post subject: RE: Operation Scorpion and it's Aftermath |
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I seem to recall that in the aftermath of Scorpion, there was something of an era of good feelings. Melissa, always more of a diplomat than any of her other family members, might have been trying to extend that.
FedCom is also one of the more conservative factions (along with their then-ally Kurita) so it might have been a little like the return of the Cathedrals in France to the Catholic Church after the French Revolution, a nod in the direction of the status quo (yes, I know the history is more complicated than that).
Or it was a really stupid mistake.
Or it's like the points in Who's Line Is It Anyways? They don't matter, it's just a plot gimmick to keep the franchise moving.
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