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AWAD
Draconis Combine
Chu-sa
Joined: 06-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 766
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 Posted: 27-Jul-2006 16:31 Post subject: RL10 vs RL20 |
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At Origins I got to play a POS Catapult that had RL20s, and bunches of them. Not what I wanted to play but I went ahead and tried my best. The RL20s sucked, range, heat and of course the modifier. I actually shut myself down. Was the only thing that made sense. I then got wasted.
I have used RLs in the past and knew they were not great but this blew chunks. So I looked into the RLs a little more.
RL20 1.5T 3 Crits 5 Heat 1-3/4-7/8-12 $45K
RL10 .5T 1 Crit 3 Heat 1-5/6-11/12-18 $15K
I am not a fan of the 2 LRM 5s vs 1 LRM 10 but this is stupid beyond belief.
I can have 2 RL 10s, for 1 extra heat I get more range, less crits and tonnage, and more critically, longer range. O and $15K to put in my pocket. None of this makes any sense unless I missed something in the rules. So anyone designing with RL20s is a moron. I was very dismayed when I studied it a little closer.
AWAD- RLs are for high speed hitters, not Catapults and Archers.
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Stinger
The Knights of Chaos
General
Joined: 30-Apr-2002 00:00
Posts: 1833
Location: United States
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| Posted: 27-Jul-2006 18:44 Post subject: RE: RL10 vs RL20 |
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I prefer RL's for vehicles on mechs there is always something else that is better you can put there.
_________________
Stinger
If it's "creepy" to use the Internet, military satellites, and robot aircraft to find a house full of gorgeous young models so I can drop in on them unexpected, then FINE, I'm "creepy". Howard Wolowitz. BBT.
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AlexxKnight
Federated Suns
Colonel
Joined: 11-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 787
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| Posted: 27-Jul-2006 23:47 Post subject: RE: RL10 vs RL20 |
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AWAD,
Having never used them myself, but by simplying looking at the data you just provided, I'd have to agree. RL SUCK @SS and anyone who uses a RL20 instead of 2x RL10s is a dumb @ss and a completely moron and devereves to pilot it and watch in utter horror as they get torn to shreds.
_________________
Alexx Knight, Lance Sgt.
Command Company, Crimson Janissaries
-----------------------------------------------------
The path of the righteous man is beset on all sides by the inequities of the selfish and the tyranny of evil men. . . And you
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Knightrunner
Clan Snow Raven
Star Commander
Joined: 20-Jul-2005 00:00
Posts: 123
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| Posted: 28-Jul-2006 13:28 Post subject: RE: RL10 vs RL20 |
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And yet both are better than the one-shot MRM-20. That might be why the range drops for no logical reason; otherwise the RL-20 would _exceed_ the performance of the MRM 20 for 1/5 of the weight.
Sad, really, but the rules have lot's of bad weapons that have huge drawbacks and very tiny advantages: heavy MG's v. standard MG's, Heavy SL's v. ER SL's, 2 small pulses v. 1 medium pulse, and any sort of one-shot launcher v. multi shot of the same size.
Mechs really shouldn't rely on them, but I think an Urbanmech chassis might be pretty good for RL's; they kind of fit it's image and mission profile.
The only real advantage of the 20 is the fact that it's a single item for vehicle construction. I suppose it could be an issue in some sort of 'RL carrier'. Probably not even worth inclusion in the rulebook just for that, but since it's there, some designer is going to use it.
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Sleeping Dragon
Draconis Combine
Tai-i
Joined: 06-Apr-2005 00:00
Posts: 4820
Location: Czech Republic
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| Posted: 28-Jul-2006 15:01 Post subject: RE: RL10 vs RL20 |
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I agree with all things said before. I understand that RL 20s need some disadvantage, because the vee can mount a lot of them. I think that they were too restricted. I understand the tonnage and crits added, it was done before, but why the decreased range?
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The dragon NEVER sleeps!
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Rudel Gurken
Allisters Light Thunder
Major
Joined: 15-Jun-2005 00:00
Posts: 1466
Location: Germany
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| Posted: 28-Jul-2006 16:11 Post subject: RE: RL10 vs RL20 |
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I think they should have introduced the RL10 and dropped the other "bigger" launchers!!
_________________
Reality is where the Pizza-man comes from!'Gucken, petzen, verpissen!' (Look at it, squeal it, get the hell away from it!) – Motto of the recon troops'Artillery doesn´t know friend or foe! They only know worthwhile targets!‘ – Kuritan Infantrist
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Sleeping Dragon
Draconis Combine
Tai-i
Joined: 06-Apr-2005 00:00
Posts: 4820
Location: Czech Republic
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| Posted: 28-Jul-2006 16:23 Post subject: RE: RL10 vs RL20 |
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Well, with the same range as RL 10 the RL 20 would be still useful for vees, but as it stands I think that it should be used as a static launcher built from alternative materials in place of it's deployment.
Missiles transported in launching tubes (transported as a cargo on flatbed truck or mules) and set in place for firing in prepared position rather than installing it on some machine.
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The dragon NEVER sleeps!
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AWAD
Draconis Combine
Chu-sa
Joined: 06-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 766
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| Posted: 28-Jul-2006 21:01 Post subject: RE: RL10 vs RL20 |
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But this logic has a flaw, if I am doing a low end disposable weapon system, why use the one that is more expensive?
RL is for the outer reaches. Thus on Mechs and vehicles, or in emplacements, in the Periphery. So I agree it has a fluff, and I use the hell out of that, but even that argument flies against the fluff they are trying to support.
So using today’s standards. Most US pickup trucks are .5 cargo capacity vehicles, so right up the RL10 Texas Pick Up Truck Redneck army. 1.5 tons and you are getting into duelies. If you are using pack animals to move your equipment, this becomes even more important.
AWAD- RL10 TPUT coming up
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AWAD
Draconis Combine
Chu-sa
Joined: 06-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 766
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| Posted: 28-Jul-2006 21:02 Post subject: RE: RL10 vs RL20 |
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Single Item for construction, something I did not think of. So a very limited use.
Very correct about some weapons with more drawbacks than advantages.
AWAD- Grrrrrr
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AWAD
Draconis Combine
Chu-sa
Joined: 06-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 766
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| Posted: 28-Jul-2006 21:10 Post subject: RE: RL10 vs RL20 |
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Now this is a truck. One hell of a gun rack and some spare space for beer, guns, and ammo. Plus cheaper then todays trucks 
I will get the fluff done for this shortly. (DONE)
Type/Model: Texas Pick Up Truck RL10- TPUT
Tech: Inner Sphere / 2000
Config: Wheeled Vehicle
Rules: Level 2-FA, Custom design
Mass: 3 tons
Power Plant: 10 General Motors I.C.E.
Cruise Speed: 86.4 km/h
Maximum Speed: 129.6 km/h
Armor Type: Simple Armor Plate Standard
Armament:
1 Rocket Launcher 10 (OS)
Manufacturer: General Motors
Location: Various
Communications System: None
Targeting & Tracking System: Red Neck Point and Shoot
Overview:
The Silverado 1500 Pick Up has been the number one selling Pick Up Truck, and the main reason General Motors is still around, in the entire Inner Sphere. Not common in the plush planets or rarified air of capital cities but in the country and outer reaches of humanity it is the work horse of progress, or lack there of.
Due to its ubiquitous nature it was just a matter of time before someone put guns on the truck. It was the Red Neck Army that made the TPUT something to be feared; drunken cowboys listening to heavy metal that put a set of rockets on it. MGs, SRMs, all child's play.
Capabilities:
Simple, it can tank up, meet their buddies at the crossroads at a nice cruise of 88 kph (55mph). They load up the rockets, and move out. Wait behind a ridge, so once the enemy shows up they blast them and skedaddle at over 130 kph back home.
Many have extra capacity to carry a set of reloads; or some mines, or a few buddies with rifles to take pot shots as they flee. But like any remote folk, you pick on one you pick on them all, and waves of them continue to show up and harasses between hauling cattle, mending fences, or producing babies in the truck bed.
Best part is the Rocket Launcher can be removed and the TPUT going back to normal duty once the fighting is over. Allowing it to be the true utility vehicle.
Battle History:
El Reno Crossroads forever is linked with the TPUT dishing out a victory, much to the dismay of those on the receiving end, Wilsons Hussars. Desperate for supplies the Hussars tried to bully the locals into giving food, any parts they may have. Well the locals refused, it was said if they asked nice they may have gotten some home cooked meals.
So the Wilson Hussars were on their way to Abilene to take what they wanted. A group of fed up ranchers, farmers, repair guys, and bored teenagers slapped rockets on their Pick Ups and went to go meet these Mech Mercs.
When the Hussars saw this tiny band of resistors they sent Pvt Yankee Goldstein in his Clint to scatter them and make a point. None was sure what was said but "Yehaa" can be made out on the video. In an eruption of smoke streaks of rockets ripped across the road and slammed into the Clint. Nothing was left.
Wilsons Hussars were incensed and charged forward, the locals, now out of ammo in most cases, bolted for open country of down the road. The Hussars took out their rage on any farm or little road side gas station, and Pick Up truck they could find.
Well in the next 24 hours half the Pick Ups pulled into Abilene to be retrofitted with Rocker Launchers and have Red Neck army stenciled on their doors. The add hock army would just drive out in groups or individuals just to take pot shots at the Hussars. No more Mechs were killed but the damage was so appalling they had to retreat.
Variants:
Name it, either Billy Bob, John Ed, Wade, Austin or Joe, has slapped one together. Some have more armor, others slower, while others all together abandon the Rocket Launcher
Notable Vehicles & Crews:
Joe Bob Briggs is considered the greatest Pick Up Rocket guy ever. When not being a holo vid critic he is seen cruising around town in his custom painted TPUT, with limited edition Tornado Rockets. He is credited with single handily killing 2 Light Mechs, a VTOL, a platoon of infantry, and a few other TPUTs that wanted to take him on. But whacking a few hundred thousand beer cans built into a ziggurat is his biggest claim to fame, especially since all those beers came from shindigs at his place.
Deployment
Anywhere in the Inner Sphere a RL10-TPUT can be found. This is doubly true after the Inner Spheres Greatest Videos program showed the Shootout at the El Reno Crossroads on Detroit. Most are found in the most remote realms. The Texas Red Neck Army of Detroit seems to be the only "official" unit that utilizes this slapped together "combat" vehicle. They have developed manuals to make any Pick Up a Rocket Truck. They also sell patches, hats, jackets, videos, and of course beer, with a giant Armadillo as its mascot.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Type/Model: Texas Pick Up Truck RL10- TPUT
Mass: 3 tons
Const. Options: Fractional Accounting
Equipment: Items Mass
Internal Structure: 4 pts Standard 0 .30
Engine: 10 I.C.E. 0 1.00
Cruise MP: 8
Flank MP: 12
Heat Sinks: 0 Single 0 .00
Cockpit & Controls: 0 .15
Crew: 1 Members 0 .00
Armor Factor: 8 pts Standard 0 .50
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Internal Armor
Structure Value
Front: 1 3
Left / Right Sides: 1 2/2
Rear: 1 1
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Weapons & Equipment: Loc Heat Ammo Items Mass
1 Rocket Launcher 10 (OS) Rear 0 1 .50
Cargo Bay Capacity Body 0 1 .50
TOTALS: 0 2 2.95
Items & Tons Left: 3 .05
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Calculated Factors:
Total Cost: 25,375 C-Bills
Battle Value: 44
Cost per BV: 576.7
Weapon Value: 4 / 4 (Ratio = .09 / .09)
Damage Factors: SRDmg = 8; MRDmg = 5; LRDmg = 2
BattleForce2: MP: 8W, Armor/Structure: 0 / 0
Damage PB/M/L: -/-/-, Overheat: 0
Class: GL, Point Value: 0
Specials: tran0
[ This Message was edited by: Vagabond on 2006-07-29 19:44 ]
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Sleeping Dragon
Draconis Combine
Tai-i
Joined: 06-Apr-2005 00:00
Posts: 4820
Location: Czech Republic
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| Posted: 29-Jul-2006 05:36 Post subject: RE: RL10 vs RL20 |
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Yes, this is the real use for RL. And if you are looking for something simpler try the RL Mouse Trap (TM) from Schwerfer Industries GmbH.
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The dragon NEVER sleeps!
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Rudel Gurken
Allisters Light Thunder
Major
Joined: 15-Jun-2005 00:00
Posts: 1466
Location: Germany
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| Posted: 29-Jul-2006 13:14 Post subject: RE: RL10 vs RL20 |
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Right  ! Any orders?
(By the way: copyright for the name "mousetrap" is held by SD Advertizing group, Nova Czechia!) 
_________________
Reality is where the Pizza-man comes from!'Gucken, petzen, verpissen!' (Look at it, squeal it, get the hell away from it!) – Motto of the recon troops'Artillery doesn´t know friend or foe! They only know worthwhile targets!‘ – Kuritan Infantrist
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Nightmare
Lyran Alliance
Kommandant-General
Joined: 03-May-2002 00:00
Posts: 2214
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| Posted: 30-Jul-2006 01:05 Post subject: RE: RL10 vs RL20 |
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Militia pickups with rocket launchers? What could be simpler to produce? Even MGs weigh more when you include ammo.
_________________
A tree fall in the forest, and no one is around, and it hits a mime. Does anyone care?
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Vagabond
Mercenary
Mr. Referee
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 5788
Location: United States
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AWAD
Draconis Combine
Chu-sa
Joined: 06-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 766
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| Posted: 16-Aug-2006 16:48 Post subject: RE: RL10 vs RL20 |
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Props to you big man. Love all the variants. But come on, mine are faster. cheaper, and a true red neck combat platorm. 
But I may use one ot two of your verisons. Have some uses for it.
AWAD- So at 7 tons it is a Jeep or a Hummer?
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