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Nightmare
Lyran Alliance
Kommandant-General
Joined: 03-May-2002 00:00
Posts: 2214
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 Posted: 15-Oct-2006 06:27 Post subject: Any successful and fun scenarios with ClanTech? |
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I've been working this weekend while my mates played a few games of Battletech. They report that the IS-only game was great fun: almost everyone had heat problems and 9+ was a great chance to hit an opposing unit. Conversely, the Clan-only game was about as fun as hitting yourself in the head with a stick (you hit every time and it hurts): game over by round four.
This is why I feel compelled to ask you all if you've ever had a sensible game with Clan only units. Was it a campaign or a one-off? Did their clanner status mean anything besides getting cool toys?
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mud
Draconis Combine
Tai-sho
Joined: 23-Jul-2002 00:00
Posts: 1618
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| Posted: 15-Oct-2006 11:29 Post subject: RE: Any successful and fun scenarios with ClanTech? |
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Here's what I like to do:
First, come up with a pretty good IS level one company.
Second, have all of the potential players in the game bid to be the clans (BV works best here). Whoever bids lowest gets a crack at the aforementioned IS company. If you design it well, the lowest bidder will probably be using no more than three 'mechs, and none of those clan 'mechs will be among the most dangerous clan designs. Everyone has to be honest in the bidding process for this to work well, but you can do it with as few as two people or as many as 4 (1 clan player, and one player for each IS lance).
The reason I insist on using level 1 tech for the IS company is to give the clans the range advantage, which they need because they're so outnumbered. Choice of mapsheets is also important. For company scale battles (which this is) I'll use nothing smaller than a 2x2 setup. Make sure that at least one mapsheet offers LOTS of cover, while the others give some room for manuvering. I used the swamp sheets for this one time, and it worked well.
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SaberDance
Federated Suns
Colonel
Joined: 07-May-2004 00:00
Posts: 837
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| Posted: 15-Oct-2006 12:55 Post subject: RE: Any successful and fun scenarios with ClanTech? |
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Probably one of the best descriptions of clan-on-clan I've ever heard.
I've only played one clan to clan action, but it was OK. We used the lighter clan mechs (Nova/Blackhawk was a particular favorite) in restriced terrain: e.g. woods and hills. This cuts down on the range advantage (since you can't hit what you can't see) and the constantly bursting-into-flame woods, plus jumping to get clean shots, cause heat to build up faster than it can normally be dissipated.
But this stops working about 40 tons, since those mechs move so fast, and have so many heat sinks that even at close range it's just an alpha-strike fest.
You can enforce the ROE, but that only works so far.
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-Groucho Marx
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jymset
Scavenger
in pursuit of LosTech
Joined: 05-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 956
Location: Germany
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| Posted: 17-Oct-2006 08:48 Post subject: RE: Any successful and fun scenarios with ClanTech? |
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Quote:
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On 2006-10-15 06:27, Nightmare wrote:
Conversely, the Clan-only game was about as fun as hitting yourself in the head with a stick (you hit every time and it hurts): game over by round four.
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That is pretty funny! 
But seriously, what is wrong with that? When our group realised it only had time to play very short games, we switched over to clan vs clan games.
The other way we had great fun with clans was in huge multi-player games that covered whole table-tennis tables. Basically we used huge numbers of lvl1 designs (odds of at least 4, but more often 5-1, both in nos and tonnage) and just let loose. In the several games we played, the IS always won - but the carnage was just beautiful to behold!
Ok, neither of these ways is very fluffy or realistic in an in-universe context, but they were great fun!
....I would love to see how effective HAGs are in huge games like that....
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"Rear armour is defeatist!" - unknown Kuritan Mechwarrior
The AC5 is a great gun!
On heat, 3025 style:
A Rifleman knows no heat.
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Stinger
The Knights of Chaos
General
Joined: 30-Apr-2002 00:00
Posts: 1833
Location: United States
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| Posted: 17-Oct-2006 12:57 Post subject: RE: Any successful and fun scenarios with ClanTech? |
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Clan games are incredibly hard to play. Mostly because the hold to such a strict code of conduct that most people cant do it. We tried it in one of our groups but it didnt last very long. we were all new warriors and we had to go through the placement ritual. It was fun, but after that it was pretty boring, unless we were running raids every week.
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Stinger
If it's "creepy" to use the Internet, military satellites, and robot aircraft to find a house full of gorgeous young models so I can drop in on them unexpected, then FINE, I'm "creepy". Howard Wolowitz. BBT.
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Knightrunner
Clan Snow Raven
Star Commander
Joined: 20-Jul-2005 00:00
Posts: 123
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| Posted: 19-Oct-2006 17:53 Post subject: RE: Any successful and fun scenarios with ClanTech? |
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I've had lot's of fun with Clan on Clan engagements if the other players were willing to roleplay. Fair trials are pretty easy to engineer. Sticking to Clan ROE and using larger, more open maps prevents the one turn mutual suicide some Clan fights can degenerate into. It also is more authentic to most Clans' style of play; emphasizing speed and range over short-range firepower.
On the other hand, some players are just looking for more firepower and better gunnery skills. They tend to ignore ROE and the Clans' preference for long-range fighting. On two (or worse, one) mapsheets mobility isn't as important, as enemy units will almost always be in medium, if not short, range.
It can be fun; it depends on who you play with and how much time and space you have.
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mud
Draconis Combine
Tai-sho
Joined: 23-Jul-2002 00:00
Posts: 1618
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| Posted: 20-Oct-2006 11:31 Post subject: RE: Any successful and fun scenarios with ClanTech? |
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I still think the best clan scenarios are Clan vs. Inner Sphere. Each player has different strengths, so you end up with some pretty nuanced tactical problems.
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"The enemy's gate is down."
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Knightrunner
Clan Snow Raven
Star Commander
Joined: 20-Jul-2005 00:00
Posts: 123
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| Posted: 20-Oct-2006 21:45 Post subject: RE: Any successful and fun scenarios with ClanTech? |
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Yes, Inner Sphere vs. Clan makes for some interesting strategies.
But timeframe matters a lot, too. Set in 3050, the Clans will face lots of Lvl 1 tech or simple, non-optimized upgrades. Of course, they will be using strict engagement rules, use aggressive, but flawed, designs like the Loki, and often carry light ammo loads.
Later on the IS designs get better, and more tailored for fighting the Clans, but the new Clan designs, tactics, and pod configs are more tailored for fighting the IS.
I myself very much prefer the early period- I think it works quite well, but it's hard to replicate the surprise and unfamiarity with the best tactics that the IS (and to an extent the Clans) had to contend with during the early invasion.
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Yffer
Clan Ghost Bear
Point Commander
Joined: 04-Jul-2006 00:00
Posts: 11
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| Posted: 29-Oct-2006 00:07 Post subject: RE: Any successful and fun scenarios with ClanTech? |
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My most succesful Clan versus Clan scenarios involve clan-backed bandit castes. Since rules of honor don't apply to fighting bandits, it makes everything so much easier (no batchcalls). We tend to roll play how long it takes an honorable warrior to get comfortable fighting outside of the honor code. This usuallly gives the bandits an edge at the beginning in terms of grouping their fire and performing physical attacks. The scenario usually involves the bandits trying to defend themselves from Clan bandit hunters for X amount of turns to make their escape or to remove something valuable from the field. In many scenarios the bandits are the victors due to being the defenders and all the advantages that brings (fortifications, partial cover, mines). Also, we role play clan arrogance in dealing with the bandits. Clan warriors don't like to retreat from bandits. A hidden or partial cover 3025 Banshee can do a lot of damage with physical attacks before it goes down.
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mud
Draconis Combine
Tai-sho
Joined: 23-Jul-2002 00:00
Posts: 1618
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| Posted: 29-Oct-2006 09:19 Post subject: RE: Any successful and fun scenarios with ClanTech? |
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The early period is the best. Once the IS starts getting optimized upgrades, they're really not too different from the clans. The clans' range and speed advantages largely disappear in 3055, leaving them primarily with the advantage of sturdier 'mechs and harder hitting guns.
3050 era engagements can have a wonderful asymmetry to them. The clan pilots have to be careful not to just find a good spot of cover and blast away at long range, because sooner or later the IS missile boats will knock you out with LRMs. I do find that in order for the matchup to be fair at a 4:1 ratio of forces, you need a really big map (2x2 sheets) so that the clan forces have room to maneuver.
As for zellbringen, it never really has a place in my games. I find the games are balanced enough with a 4:1 ratio of BV that zellbringen is really just a hassle for all involved.
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"The enemy's gate is down."
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mud
Draconis Combine
Tai-sho
Joined: 23-Jul-2002 00:00
Posts: 1618
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| Posted: 29-Oct-2006 09:22 Post subject: RE: Any successful and fun scenarios with ClanTech? |
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One time I saw a Blackhawk get bogged down in a swamp and just mugged to pieces by a 3025 Atlas and Hunchback. Not a happy clanner...but he should have stayed clear of the swamp.
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"The enemy's gate is down."
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mud
Draconis Combine
Tai-sho
Joined: 23-Jul-2002 00:00
Posts: 1618
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| Posted: 02-Nov-2006 14:59 Post subject: BV and Clantech |
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Here's a related question: do you think that BV should be equal between I.S. and Clan forces, or that I.S. forces should get more BV? I've only been involved in one I.S. vs. Clan battle which involved BV, and the BV was set lower for the clans, which I thought put the Clan side at a serious disadvantage. The Clanners ended up getting thomped without inflicting any real damage...although it also hurt that I picked a design which would have done well on a large sheet, and we only played on a single board.
[ This Message was edited by: mud on 2006-11-02 14:59 ]
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Vagabond
Mercenary
Mr. Referee
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 5788
Location: United States
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| Posted: 02-Nov-2006 15:07 Post subject: RE: BV and Clantech |
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Quote:
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On 2006-11-02 14:59, mud wrote:
Here's a related question: do you think that BV should be equal between I.S. and Clan forces, or that I.S. forces should get more BV? I've only been involved in one I.S. vs. Clan battle which involved BV, and the BV was set lower for the clans, which I thought put the Clan side at a serious disadvantage. The Clanners ended up getting thomped without inflicting any real damage...although it also hurt that I picked a design which would have done well on a large sheet, and we only played on a single board.
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While BV may not be perfect [as many ppl i have played via MM have said] it is the single best indication of balanced forces. And even in a Clan vs IS battle, i feel that unless the clan commander bid forces below that BV mark the battle should be equal BV.
The only time i condone lopsided BV in a game is if A] the one side is supposed to be out gunned or B] you have a veteran player going against a novice. Only then should the BV be offset.
Otherwise, your putting unfair strain on the Clanner to perform against the IS units [especially if their observing Zelbring without a three strikes clause.]
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one must work hard to cultivate the mind and body. and one must always cultivate the mind.
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Horhiro
Draconis Combine
Samurai
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 1625
Location: United States
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| Posted: 12-Nov-2006 19:57 Post subject: RE: Any successful and fun scenarios with ClanTech? |
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Before this year's TotalCon I would have said that Fun and Clantech should not be used in the same sentence. Quick and Clantech definately.
However I set out to fix that with an all day 12 hour scenerio of Clan v IS. It was a huge battle with 16-20 players, and the first element I threw right out was the Clan Honor, knowing it would never work correctly with time constraints,so many players,multiple units per player, and such. However I did acknowlege it by pitting star v lance as initial engagement assignments, with an eventual grand melee feel in the last 4 hours. Knowing this ahead of time, I used all new tech IS designs with BVs high enough to challenge the Clan designs. Plenty of Heavy Guass , assaults, and of course a easily defendable (so I thought) HQ compound/base.
In the end the Clanners did win the scenerio, mopping up most of the Lyrans, along with one of the two union dropships which had come to rescue them.
The turning tide and subsequent rout was quite humorously brought on upon the arrival of several elemental points who caused the IS forces to break and retreat! And who also harrased the only surviving Union so bad, that it's fire control system was shot.
Had the IS forces successfully defended their HQ and Comm Center (which they didn't thanks to excellent tactics of MOB and Mordel) they would have received extra reinforcements along with the Unions, which probably would have stemmed the tide against the elementals.
C'est la guerre! Remember kids.....always protect your HQ!
Check out the pics at:
http://www.mordel.net/barandgrill/viewtopic.php?topic=7314&forum=1&102
[ This Message was edited by: Horhiro on 2006-11-12 20:04 ]
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