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Kraken
Federated Suns
Marshal
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 2755
Location: United States
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 Posted: 16-Nov-2007 22:37 Post subject: Physically flipping tanks? |
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This came up during tonight's game.
Could a mech physically try to flip a tank?
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AWAD
Draconis Combine
Chu-sa
Joined: 06-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 766
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| Posted: 17-Nov-2007 00:54 Post subject: Physically flipping tanks? |
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There are no formal rules that I know of.
I have run into this before. Best way to handle.
1) Mech must be 2X weight of target tank (prevents Wasps from flipping Vedettes and makes huge tanks impossible to flip)
2) Like death from above, it is the only attack except you can only walk or run.No weapons fire. Enemy fires at point blank and assumes you did not move. (Fires as you are peering over to flip
3) Make a piloting roll with all normal modifiers. Must have hands on both arms. Roll damage tank tonnage/10 to the tank. Tank is a stationary target and can not fire at all.
4) If the flip works, tank is out of the game. Unless a friendly flips it back in which case damage is rolled and crew is automatically stunned for one round after the flip.
AWAD- Ever see an Atlas saying it is throwing a Ferret VTOL?
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Horhiro
Draconis Combine
Samurai
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
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Location: United States
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| Posted: 18-Nov-2007 21:19 Post subject: Re: Physically flipping tanks? |
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| Kraken wrote: | This came up during tonight's game.
Could a mech physically try to flip a tank? |
Certainly not without hand actuators. And the tank would probably have to be immobile. It would be very hard if it was moving at 80Kpm, and so was the mech chasing it.
Wouldn't it just make more sense to kick it? If players are looking for a loophole to quickly dispose of tanks, then they must not really like a challenge. I suppose they could try..... but then why not have rules for aerofighters kamakazing mechs?
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Karagin
Imperial Karagin Army
Imperial General
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
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Location: United States
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| Posted: 18-Nov-2007 21:53 Post subject: Re: Physically flipping tanks? |
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| Horhiro wrote: | | Kraken wrote: | This came up during tonight's game.
Could a mech physically try to flip a tank? |
Certainly not without hand actuators. And the tank would probably have to be immobile. It would be very hard if it was moving at 80Kpm, and so was the mech chasing it.
Wouldn't it just make more sense to kick it? If players are looking for a loophole to quickly dispose of tanks, then they must not really like a challenge. I suppose they could try..... but then why not have rules for aerofighters kamakazing mechs? |
Actually no we weren't looking for a loop and we had it pretty much surrounded, so it wasn't going anywhere. And one of the guys go's hey let's flip it on it's side, since we want the salvage...thus the whole reason behind this topic.
Let's see a 25 ton tank being lifted up by 3 20 ton mechs all with hands, so why couldn't they flip the tank?
I have seen six people flip a Volkswagen Bug as well as Buick Regal, though that took 14 people a lot of alcohol...but you get the point.
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Only the dead have seen the end of war. - Plato
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Oafman
Draconis Combine
Tai-sho
Joined: 18-Nov-2003 00:00
Posts: 1657
Location: United States
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| Posted: 19-Nov-2007 11:28 Post subject: Physically flipping tanks? |
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First question, if you had it surrounded why worry about flipping it upside down so taht you can salvage it? Much easier to aim everything you have at it then open a comm channel and convice the guys inside to surrender.
As to the issue of flipping, I like AWAD's idea. The only problem is that the tank would have to stay in its hex for that round. If it so much as moved 1 hex forward then 1 hex back you would not be able to grab hold of it. What would happen to the mech if you missed the flip though? IF you mis a kick you have to make sure you are still standing, so if the mech is mending over to flip a tank I would imagine that if you missed the flip you would have to roll a piloting roll to make sure that the pilot did not overcorrect and wind up sitting on the mechs butt. (ever tried to lit a heavy piece of furniture only to have you hands slip off the side? I have, it hurts you hands and lands you on your keister)
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Karagin
Imperial Karagin Army
Imperial General
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Location: United States
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| Posted: 19-Nov-2007 21:09 Post subject: Re: Physically flipping tanks? |
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| Oafman wrote: | First question, if you had it surrounded why worry about flipping it upside down so taht you can salvage it? Much easier to aim everything you have at it then open a comm channel and convice the guys inside to surrender.
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We tried that, they wouldn't surrender...so I am guessing it was thought of since minor damage would be done and meanwhile the tank is out of action...thus the outcome is still the same.
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Karagin
Only the dead have seen the end of war. - Plato
"Wasted trip Man. Nobody said nuthin' about lockin' horns with no tigers." Oddball
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Oafman
Draconis Combine
Tai-sho
Joined: 18-Nov-2003 00:00
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Location: United States
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| Posted: 20-Nov-2007 10:07 Post subject: Physically flipping tanks? |
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| I think that happened once in my campaign with Seraph. Unfortunately the guys in the tank made a bad roll. I said screw it and stepped on them.
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Rarich
Federated Suns
Leftenant General
Joined: 05-Feb-2002 00:00
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Location: United States
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| Posted: 19-Dec-2007 01:19 Post subject: Physically flipping tanks? |
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I would say the tank ended it movement next to the mech. The mech had fired no arm weapons that turn. now what does the mech have to grab to do the flip? Air cushion- the skirts rip, disabling the lift equipment/aircushion. Tracks- a moving band of metal that could conceivably mangle fingers? modify the ability to grab based on only front/back can be grabbed. Wheels- probably the easiest
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Oafman
Draconis Combine
Tai-sho
Joined: 18-Nov-2003 00:00
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Location: United States
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| Posted: 19-Dec-2007 13:14 Post subject: Physically flipping tanks? |
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| I just thought of something. How long does it take a large mech such as an atlas bend over far enough to lay a meaty paw on a tank? Would some designs be barred simply because of the shape and physical impossibility?
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Karagin
Imperial Karagin Army
Imperial General
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| Posted: 19-Dec-2007 14:48 Post subject: Physically flipping tanks? |
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Given that all mechs can torso twist no matter what the actual artwork shows, I would have to say there are no limits on any mech as far as reaching down and flipping something.
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Karagin
Only the dead have seen the end of war. - Plato
"Wasted trip Man. Nobody said nuthin' about lockin' horns with no tigers." Oddball
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Sleeping Dragon
Draconis Combine
Tai-i
Joined: 06-Apr-2005 00:00
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Location: Czech Republic
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| Posted: 20-Dec-2007 02:51 Post subject: Physically flipping tanks? |
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I I don't think that the meaty paw is large enough to effectively grab the tank (and you are catching a flat thing with hands that probably lack anything like our skin that wold provide friction) and don't forget that the tank doesn't stop at the end of the turn. You have to catch it while moving if the vehicle isn't immobilized like the tank mentioned earlier. 'Mechs are far clumsier than Power Ranger robots or the Transformers, so I would wage my money on physical strength rather than on agility (I don't want to imagine what would happen if a 'Mech attempted to bow down to get it's hands on a moving tank while trying to keep pace with it  ).
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Rarich
Federated Suns
Leftenant General
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| Posted: 20-Dec-2007 23:04 Post subject: Physically flipping tanks? |
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I was saying stopped by the mech at the end of turn to verify that it came "close enough" to get grabbed. Only mechs with hands would be able to grab/flip. The mech must weigh more than the tank. I do not know if you want to impose a movement limit (hard to grab something that is moving fast enough. If something is moving too fast, something gets yanked off (arm maybe?)
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Sleeping Dragon
Draconis Combine
Tai-i
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Location: Czech Republic
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| Posted: 21-Dec-2007 03:34 Post subject: Physically flipping tanks? |
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I'm not sure how a 'mech would stop a tank without leting it to ram in it's legs. I think that the tank needs to be immobile (crew stunned, motive system destroyed, ...) to allow the 'Mech to do anything with it and the 'Mech would have to be statinary as well. Fliping a tank would consume some movement points and require a pilot skill roll. I think that 2MP (just like standing up) would do.
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Rarich
Federated Suns
Leftenant General
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| Posted: 25-Dec-2007 23:52 Post subject: Physically flipping tanks? |
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Okay, I would buy that. 2Mp expended, hands, and Parked/Immobile vehicle. I would suggest the mech weigh more than the vehicle, as proof of actual strength to get the job done.
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Sleeping Dragon
Draconis Combine
Tai-i
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Location: Czech Republic
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| Posted: 26-Dec-2007 03:05 Post subject: Physically flipping tanks? |
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I was thinking about not allowing the 'Mech to move before attempting this. The 'Mech would have to start the turn in a hex adjacent to the vehicle. Moving after it flips the tank wouldn't be a problem, but the 'Mech shouldn't be able to flip vehicles on the move IMO.
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