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Vampire
Free Worlds League
Lieutenant Colonel
Joined: 05-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 915
Location: Spain
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 Posted: 27-Nov-2011 10:51 Post subject: Missiles revisited, with technical fluff explained |
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Achtung! Warning! These rules are intended for players of the Succession Wars and earlier eras that want some variety in their games, and for people that are interested in the technical side of things.
Modern day composite armor has very much rendered hollow charges ineffective. something that was amply demonstrated in the 3rd Gulf War. Infantry were a threat to armor once a time when they were armed with Panzerfaust and RPG weapons that could pierce even the thickest steel armor. Modern day tanks and the Mechs of the future are invulnerable to small arms fire, artillery and basically have rendered hollow charge rockets and missiles useless.
But not quite, though they lost their "one shot, one kill" capacity, shaped charges are still useful, if you fire lots of them. They may strike a vulnerable spot, and in the process they degrade the outer layer of ablative armor of the mechs, opening breaches for other weapons.
Basically no single class of weapon can defeat Battletech armor on its own. Energy beams are fashionable, missiles don't lose penetration with range, ballistics remain the most effective armor, but they have their own problems of scale creep and diminishing returns. The ages old duel between spear and shield has reached a stalemate. Armor is not impregnable, but it seldom if ever can be pierced with a single shot, so is best to see damage in game terms as an abstract representation of cumulative probability of a hit breaching the armor.
Missile launchers are like Antitank Rocket Pods used by helicopters and aircraft today but with two differences 1) they can reload and fire multiple times b) They are not dumb rockets that fly in straight lines.
Even if they hadn't become lostech, missile guidance systems would be prohibitively expensive to equip every single missile with self guidance "fire and forget". Radar and IR guidance and other emissiones can be countered, so the best that could be achieved in Star League days were semiguided missiles, or to be precise, Active guidance by illuminating the target, and passive guidance in the warheads. Artemis, NARC... all are variations of the same principle, they recquire manual acquisition of the target by the firer for the missiles to home on it. As such, they are only as accurate as the firer skill.
Missiles are missiles and not rockets because they do have steering fins or thrusts, and a small cheap processor that keeps the missile in course. They do not fire in straight lines, but they can fire in a preset course and stick to it, the best analogy would be WWII torpedoes, who used a primitive computer to predict the target course and adjusted the torpedo path to a colision course, wich in techinical terms is called a "fire solution"
All this in a Mech is done by computer in few seconds and firing is done in salvoes, firing the missiles in spreads to increase probability of hitting. The missile hits table represents that typically the first flight of missiles in a salvo will miss the mark but the rest will hit. They are more accurate than ballistic rockets because steering compensantes for crosswind and other things not contemplated in the original firing solution. They also allow for plunging fire, you could even fire them around corners, just like torpedoes could sometimes fired to make a 90degree turn.
That being said, the rules could be expanded and improved. I made SRMs heavier and more powerful, 3 points of damage in groups of 2missiles , with less ammo, and added new intermediate missiles between the SRM and LRM ranges. Medium missiles would 2 points of damage in groups of 3 with a range of 12 hexes, and Intermediate missiles would do 1 point of damage in groups of 4 with a range of 18 hexes and a mín of 4 (5 for LRMs)
Dumb rockets could also be used, but more as a weapon for aircraft and tanks and infantry than Mechs, though being cheap and plentiful they would be also popular in the Mad Max setting of the Third Succession War.
very much the same rules as the Medium Range Missiles. Range 15 hexes, with a min of 3, . The difference is that they are just a type of ammo, not a new weapons system, and that they would be of the same caliber as Long Range and Intermediate Missiles and could be fired from their launchers in the appropiate groupings.
I will copy an image of a new weapons table I did with photochop, is in Spanish but is self explanatory and you get the idea to make yourself a similar table in english
_________________
Memento audare semper
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Vampire
Free Worlds League
Lieutenant Colonel
Joined: 05-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 915
Location: Spain
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| Posted: 27-Nov-2011 10:54 Post subject: Missiles revisited, with technical fluff explained |
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Here I elaborate more on the different kinds of missiles
To use an analogy. LRMs are artillery fire to soften up an enemy from long range before closing in for the kill. SRMs are like 20th century naval torpedos, deadly at short range, and a weapon of choice for fast light Mechs to close in, let loose a volley, and flee. The Commando and Javelin have a very respectable punch.
Downside is the short range, and that they have very little ammo.
Both LRM and SRM are good for specialized missile Mechs, or to add either some firepower or long range ability to a Mech as a secondary armament.
Medium and Intermediate missiles are tradeoff weapons, with emphasis on firepower and range respectively. A missile boat equipped with them as main armament don't think would be very effective. IRMs are the poor's man LRM, intended for Mechs that cannot afford the massive size of LRMs. They also make more effective back up weapons as their range profile complements better other weapons. For example, a Thunderbolt LRM rack is not very effective because is an afterthought on a short range brawler.
Rockets. Are not missiles. Missiles have a steering system. Rockets are stabilized by fins or by vents, but fly in straight lines.
Repeat, they are not a missile weapon in itself, but simply a type of ammunition that has the same caliber and fits in the ammo bins and tubes of the LRM and IRM launchers. They cut on propellant to make them more compact and lighter nd fit more missiles inside the same volume. You do not gain much of an advantage firing them from IRMs, wich are already cut down LRMs, except in numbers. They are more useful for firing from LRMs.
They are simply a cheap ammo for use for saturation bombardments, to destroy infantry positions and buildings. Not very attractive to Mechs, but I included them in the table for reference, as in a Succession War game they will be commonly used by cheap vehicles and infantry.
One Shot Missiles. One shot weapons make no sense in a Mech. Anyway, that is what rockets are for. Use them in pods set on a wheeled trailer and instant antiMech and antitank weapon for infantry. They can also be mounted on the back of pickup trucks or other light vehicles, for shoot and scoot tactics.
The other main use is using them in rocket pods attached to underwing pylons in helicopters, aircraft and aerospace fighters for use in atmosphere for ground strikes. These would be fired using the piloting skill, not gunnery, but they have a very drawback. Essentially you are carrying a unprotected stockpile of ammunition under the wing, and any hit on it could cause a massive explosion. You could carry them in protected containers, but each point of armor is more than 50 kilos, wich quickly add up.
I proposed for Ammunition Explosions to roll on the Critical Hits table. So if you want to take this chance go ahead.
Hypothetically you could add external OS containers to a Mech, but is kinda risky, for those same reasons, even more because a Mech or tank attracts much more fire and is hit more often than aircraft.
Also, bear in mind that you have to fire about a hundred LRMs or thirty SRMs at a target to cause any substantial damage. Missile Launchers in Battletech recquire several salvos to achieve an effect and are voracious consumer of ammunitions. Even an aircraft mounting four or six 20 rocket pods is going to cause only slight damage, and that consider the average probability of hits in Battletech is less than 50%. Like in real life, rockets are cheap and effective for attacking infantry or buildings, they are not very effective antiMech or antitank weapons.
You can load a chopper or conventional airplane with rocket pods, wich gives them a considerable one shot punch, but they can only harass an enemy, and they can only do a single attack run. On the other hand, an Aerospace fighter usually has the armor and weaponry to be able to make several passes at a ground target.
Rocket pods would be an effective and cheap antiMech and antitank weapon for infantry, since they rarely can fire more than a couple shots before being suppressed, overrun or bypassed. The advantage over using towed SRM or LRM launchers is that they can pack more firepower in one volley with an acceptable range.
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innersphere3050
Federated Suns
Corporal
Joined: 12-Jan-2011 18:43
Posts: 69
Location: United States
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| Posted: 24-Jan-2012 22:48 Post subject: Missiles revisited, with technical fluff explained |
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| Since you mention missles have a guidance system, have you explored to hit bonuses? -1 for a radar guided or -1 for infrared if the targeted mech created 10 or more points of heat?
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Vampire
Free Worlds League
Lieutenant Colonel
Joined: 05-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 915
Location: Spain
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| Posted: 03-Feb-2012 13:56 Post subject: Missiles revisited, with technical fluff explained |
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Ah! Guidance systems! Well, Battletech makes it abundantly clear that smart munitions were victim of their own success. Every guidance system in the end was neutralized by the appropiate countermeasure, and in the end , shaped charges are not very effective against Mech armor unless you use dozens of them. It's just impractical and not worth the cost to arm every warhead with a guidance system.
I refer you to the Falkenberg legion series, a series of novels by Jerry Pournelle wich were one of the prime sources of inspiration for Battletech. It basically said that smart weapons defeated themselves and it was back to sticks and stones.
If you want guidance systems, pick up Level 2 tech. I have to say the Artemis and Narc beacons and Semiguided LRMs were all very interesting and ingenious ways of solving the missile guidance problem.
Radar in battletech is practically useless in Btech ground combat due to jamming, being merely used as a navigation aid. But heat seeking missiles would still be useful, but then easily misguided with flare launchers.
Whatever you like for your game, I think guided missiles are more bother than fun, so I stay with basic missiles for my Succession War games
_________________
Memento audare semper
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innersphere3050
Federated Suns
Corporal
Joined: 12-Jan-2011 18:43
Posts: 69
Location: United States
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| Posted: 05-Mar-2012 21:46 Post subject: Missiles revisited, with technical fluff explained |
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To keep the game simple, I agree the current BT missles or what you propose are better for gameplay.
I wondered what you thought about guidance systems, because lets face it BT missles are much more like rockets than missles. We tried giving actual guidance systems to missles and upping the damage so that it would be more like a real missle. So an LRM 10 would have 10 missles that could be infrared guided, radar guided, etc. And each missle did 10 damage but you could only fire a couple at a time so they didn't destabilize each other. And mechs could mount appropriate countermeasures.
It did make the game more complex and most mechs needed more redesign than they do now. Was fun but we stick to the standard BT rules for missles. Anyways thanks for the thoughts and references, will try the missle rules sometime and see how they work
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